Parents of 106 children notify DOE of intent to use vouchers [FL students can thank Jeb ]

AP ^ | June 22, 2002 | AP

[summer]

Parents of 106 children notify DOE of intent to use vouchers

Saturday, June 22, 2002

Associated Press

TALLAHASSEE - The parents of 106 children have notified the state of their intentions to use vouchers to go to private schools this fall, an official said Friday.

Some 8,900 students attend 10 voucher-eligible schools in four counties. Their parents have until July 1 to notify the state Department of Education that they plan to use a voucher.

Students at those schools are eligible for vouchers because the schools earned their second failing grade in four years earlier this month.

Five of the schools are in Miami-Dade County, three in Palm Beach County and one each in Orange and Escambia counties.

Forty of the 106 children now attend a failing public school in Orange County, 31 in Miami-Dade, 34 in Palm Beach and one in Escambia.

In 1999, two Pensacola elementary schools became the first and, until last week, only schools to be eligible for vouchers. Fifty-eight of their students accepted private schools vouchers, and 47 of them continue to attend a private school on a voucher.

Vouchers are equal to the amount of money that would be spent on the student in public school or the cost of tuition at the private school, whichever is less. The average annual cost of teaching a student in Florida is $5,200, but that varies widely depending on the district.

The toll-free number set up by the state is 1-800-447-1636. It will be answered from 8 a.m. through 8 p.m. EDT Monday through Friday and 8 a.m. through 5 p.m. EDT on Saturday.

[summer]

I know most FR people strongly support school choice, but I would like to say something to lurkers out there who do not, and, who probably do not actually know much about FL:

Remember that FL students now obtaining vouchers in "F" schools are currently attending public schools graded "F" in two grading years -- not just one year. This means the school has:

(1) Already received one "F"

(2) Already received additional funding, additional help, and had a plan to improve;

(3) Despite the additional help, the school did not improve from an "F" to a "D;"

(4) The school received a 2nd "F" in a subsequent year;

(5) Upon receiving this 2nd "F" the state is making Opportunity Scholarships available to these students;

(6) These FL scholarships/vouchers can be used by the student for either a private school or to attend a better performing public school;

(7) Not every student's parents will request a voucher, based on past experience with these schools [IMO, that happens because some parents are truly uninvolved in education, or, some parents may prefer to keep their child in that failing public school for whatever reason]; and

(8) The "F" school will again receive additional funding and resources, and has to come up with a new improvement plan.

Many "F" schools in Florida have improved in FL, and it is quite possible the school will still improve, either with a new principal and/or other changes.

However, if every student decided to bail out of a chronically failing school, and the student does get a better education elsewhere, well -- what is so wrong with that? If your child was the one attending a chronically failing school, wouldn't you want a better opportunity for your kid? I know the arguments against school choice always make it sound like the entire public school system will collapse if one student leaves on a voucher, but, frankly, FL is actually providing school choice and the frightening results predicted by critics of school choice have not happened. BTW, for more info, see:

Opportunity Scholarships info, from the FL Dept of Education

Finally, for both lurkers and FR people, please note that any child who is a low-income FL public school student, and wants out of his or her current public school, does not need to wait for the school to get an "F" grade. This other voucher program, not involving school grades, provides scholarship/vouchers funded by a corporate tax credit. Low income students can choose either a better public school, or a private school. For more info about this program, see the links posted through this essay:

'The Jeb Bush Nobody Knows' -- Part 11: How Jeb's Newest, 3rd Voucher Program Helps Low-Income Students

[summer]

I meant: Many "F" schools have improved in FL...

[summer]

For index.

[ez2muz]

Doesn't an "F" also mean the school's teaching positions are open?
IOW: Teaching positions are "re-competed" inside the "F" grade schools?

[summer]

To my knowledge, no, not at all. However, in an "F" school, there is high turnover naturally, as more teachers want to leave and fewer teachers will want to go there.

Jacksonville, FL is currently trying a new program, to get experienced teachers to voluntarily leave their current teaching assignments and go to these "F" or "D" rated schools.

I think this program is great idea, because such "F" schools are often filled with new teachers, and NO mentors. I'm not sure who exactly is backing this new program, but it's a program I strongly support.

[LarryLied]

Could you explain further?

[Tacis]

I understand that some schools may be terrible, but vouchers are not the solution and, in fact, could turn into a disaster. The private schools, once close to 90% capacity, will begin to raise tuition (much as colleges raise tuition by the amount of the Pell Grants). Then, "new" private schools will come into the market. The old district, no matter how few students, will have to be funded but the private schools will represent a duplicate system. Eventually, both will be funded by our property taxes. The marginal, loser kids, of all races, will continue to be imprisoned by union teachers and the better kids, mostly white, will do better in the private schools. That is, until the lefties begin to militate against the "better" schools and force them to teach all the liberal crap you get in today's public schools. The better way is to fix the schools we already have.

[Betty Jane]

(7) Not every student's parents will request a voucher, based on past experience with these schools [IMO, that happens because some parents are truly uninvolved in education, or, some parents may prefer to keep their child in that failing public school for whatever reason];

I work at charter school. We have had some parents pull their kids out over differences concerning education or discipline policies, which is a legitemate excuse.

We have also had some pull out over the stupidest things, after they admit their kid was doing much better. Here is a list of some ridiculous excuses.

She wants to be with her friends (even though the school stinks).

He wants to ride the bus.

I don't want to make lunch every day.

She hates the uniforms.

I hate having to get up and drive them every day.

These are some of the reasons given by parents when they have pulled their kids out of our school. We increased the kids' reading levels 1-2 years, but giving their children what they want or making life easy for the parent was more important than the child's education. Some things are just more important than others to different people.

[Betty Jane]

The better way is to fix the schools we already have.

Ther is no way to fix the schools we have without real competetion. There is no incentive when you have a captive consumer. The more kids who get out of public schools, the more likely the public school will be to improve to keep the kids they have.

[summer]

We increased the kids' reading levels 1-2 years, but giving their children what they want or making life easy for the parent was more important than the child's education. Some things are just more important than others to different people.

Betty Jane, thank you VERY much for that on-target post.

In my own experience, as a brand new teacher in a low income inner city school, I had one student who was extremely well dressed and always very polite. He stuck out like a sore thumb at that particular school.

I later learned he lived very close to a much better public school in a suburban area quite a distance aways -- however, here he was, at a low graded inner city public school.

His mother explained to me she worked nearby, and it was easier for her to drop him off at this school (a low performing inner city school), than at the (better performing, suburban) school in his neighborhood.

What more can I say....

[summer]

LarryLied, I am guessing what this poster is referring to is some highly publicized plans of a few politicians to immediately "CLOSE" failing schools and "FIRE" all the staff in a low performing public school -- as if by the "closing of the doors" and solely by hiring different all new people, the school will magically turn around (BTW, I recall this being Al Gore's suggestion at one point during the presidential campaign 2000. Gore's suggestion, BTW, is actually FAR more radical [and ineffective] than the measured, systematic approach of Gov Bush).

But the truth is more complex: yes, it can be beneficial to get rid of some staff, but, unhappy people often leave on their own.

And, if people are not yet in such despair and want to stay, then, why not let them? Sometimes a new principal with a new vision will make an impact.

Also, the plan I mentioned about getting more experienced teachers into these schools will greatly help. New teachers want to succeed too, but it is often difficult, and sometimes next to impossible in a school with so many severe problems that every moment of the day is a crisis moment.

[summer]

I meant: And, the entire the truth is even more complex:

[summer]

The marginal, loser kids, of all races, will continue to be imprisoned by union teachers and the better kids, mostly white, will do better in the private schools.

With respect to FL, this is fallacy. See the 2nd link in my post #1 to understand why you are in error with respect to this state.

[summer]

The more kids who get out of public schools, the more likely the public school will be to improve to keep the kids they have.

Tacis, I agree with Betty Jane, and I would add that public schools certainly CAN improve. Some public schools are much better than some private schools, IMO. So when public schools buckle down and do it right, they not only benefit their students, they also cause private schools to improve in order to keep up and compete with those outstanding public schools. This is good news for every student, public and private.

[goodieD]

You cannot possibly fix public schools unless you have some mandate on what they can and cannot teach. Sex of any kind is out, self-esteem is out, "tolerance and diverstity training" is out. No more homosexual teachers, and teachers may not discuss their personal lives with their students. It should be the basics with some healthy extracurricular activities like sports/music/art. The schools suck simply because they are too busy teaching leftist indoctrination and social engineering. The only public school I would accept would be one modeled on schools before 1950.

[ez2muz]

"...I am guessing what this poster is referring to is some highly publicized plans of a few politicians to immediately "CLOSE" failing schools..."

No. ...and I'm trying to find where I read it... (that teachers in an "F" school would not be "grandfathered" back into their teaching positions but must re-apply.)

Since it didn't ring any bells with you - and I can't find it anywhere except in my failing memory, it could very well be that it was expressed as an idea and I took it to mean current procedure... but that's why I used question marks in the first post. ~:)

[ivylass]

I'm not entirely sure the "C" schools are much better. My son's middle school rated a C, and while we were flipping through a book for our daughter, "What every 5th Grader Should Know" (We're doing some home-schooling over the summer) my son revealed that he did not know Abraham Lincoln had been assasinated, nor when the Revolutionary War was fought. We are desperately trying to get him and our daughter into a private school...hopefully in a year from now, when he enters 9th grade.

[summer]

...it could very well be that it was expressed as an idea and I took it to mean current procedure.

No problem. It was never an idea in FL as far as I know, but I recall Al Gore mentioning it.

[summer]

my son revealed that he did not know Abraham Lincoln had been assasinated, nor when the Revolutionary War was fought.

I am wondering if this was complete news to him -- or, if he did not know the meaning of the word "assasination"? Also, students often find it difficult to understand time periods in history; for that reasons, teachers are told to use aids like a visual time / date line, marking events so they better understand the period in history.

And, BTW, good for you that you are homeschooling, and keeping a close eye on the education of your children! There may be a good private school nearby, or, another teacher in your son's own school did a much better job teaching history than your son's last teacher.

[summer]

You cannot possibly fix public schools unless you have some mandate on what they can and cannot teach.

goodieD, that was the first change I recall being made in FL -- FL's online Sunshine Standards are the learning objectives for each grade level in public school, and these statewide objectives are required to be used in guiding the school's curriculums. In addition, the focus on reading and math, and soon, on science, as a result of annual testing in those subjects, has forced many schools to spend much more time teaching those areas.