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Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread

Posted on 06/24/2002 12:48:28 PM PDT by RCW2001

Bush Middle East Speech Discussion Thread


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS:
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To: oldvike
Hey now, you'll have to do some leg work on your own. LOL That reference I just posted was at #213. Go there and start reading LOL
1,251 posted on 06/24/2002 9:35:50 PM PDT by Darlin'
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To: Miss Marple
You're mixing the comments. Try again.
1,252 posted on 06/24/2002 9:35:54 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: quidnunc
I have a feeling Rush will be giving us Levin's theory on what to do in Israel tomorrow. Both he and Hannity have been channeling The Great One for weeks.
1,253 posted on 06/24/2002 9:37:43 PM PDT by Deb
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To: Fred Mertz
think holdonnow should be commended for calling 'em as he sees them.

And those would be?

1,254 posted on 06/24/2002 9:38:33 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: quidnunc
"From what I read of his posts he seemed to be as mad about Rush-bashing here as anything"

Yep, that is how he seemed to me as well.

1,255 posted on 06/24/2002 9:38:56 PM PDT by Darlin'
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To: Howlin
I find that "tone" to be around this site all the time. Are you offended because it was Mark Levin? Do you find that as offensive as calling somebody a "little puke?"

Sadly, I also find "that tone" and epithets far worse than "a little puke" kicked around this site all the time. My point pertained to your comment that it looked like Mark struck the first blow (at least in the exchange you highlighted).
I do think talking down to someone right out of the gate will get you in trouble. At least that's been my experience. (I know it sets my teeth on edge.)

1,256 posted on 06/24/2002 9:39:05 PM PDT by truthkeeper
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To: LarryLied
Notice how Mark lists all the things Bush has done in the past which are not conservative. But he says it now. He wasn't on here complaining about the Education Bill or the Farm Bill that I recall. It is all about Israel. It always is. Republicans cannot win when it comes to Israel. Eisenhower didn't, Nixon didn't, Reagan didn't.

It's late, I'm a little dense. Could you spell out what you're saying here? It looks like you're implying that his loyalty is to Israel first because he's Jewish. Am I wrong here?

1,257 posted on 06/24/2002 9:40:07 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: section9
This is one of the best posts that I've ever seen on FR. Bigtime bump!
1,258 posted on 06/24/2002 9:40:40 PM PDT by TheEngineer
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To: truthkeeper
Well, my point was he was hardly the victim; he gave as good as he got. As so many of us do around here. ;-)
1,259 posted on 06/24/2002 9:40:44 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: PhiKapMom; Howlin
LMAO
1,260 posted on 06/24/2002 9:41:40 PM PDT by oldvike
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To: kristinn
It looks like you're implying that his loyalty is to Israel first becase he's Jewish. Am I wrong here?

It certainly sounded that way.

1,261 posted on 06/24/2002 9:42:35 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Howlin
More champagne...more consensus! LOL
1,262 posted on 06/24/2002 9:43:09 PM PDT by truthkeeper
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To: truthkeeper; oldvike; PhiKapMom
Geez, if we don't go to bed, we'll be drunk........LOL.
1,263 posted on 06/24/2002 9:44:25 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Sandy
Gee Sandy.......glad you showed up. Is it hard to navigate that broom after dark?

You can look up to anyone you want, but I wouldn't exactly call him famous, nor do I think he can't sink to the bottom. I saw it happen.

Some people think they are a lot more important than they are. What's really funny is that outside of the small percentage of people who follow politics closely, very few even know who they are.

1,264 posted on 06/24/2002 9:47:15 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: kristinn
I'm not sure we're reading the same posts. It appears to me that someone DARED to disagree with holdonow and HE threw the first verbal punch.
1,265 posted on 06/24/2002 9:47:23 PM PDT by justshe
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To: Howlin
Talk about late to the party! I left this thread over 1,100 posts ago to go back to work after lunch and -- what the H happened to the discussion of Bush's policy speech??? What is all this about...no, don't answer, if it takes 1,100 posts its probably not worth re-hashing.
1,266 posted on 06/24/2002 9:47:49 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: toenail
"...decapitating babies..."

Oh, good grief. You're thinking of Clinton. He vetoed the pba bills everytime the Republicans sent 'em up. Bush will sign the first one that hits his desk and he won't blink.

You one issue cry-babies are exhausting. At least stay on the abortion threads where you belong...oh, that's right, there haven't been many since January 2001 which must be why you'rer draggin' that tired crap over here.

1,267 posted on 06/24/2002 9:48:11 PM PDT by Deb
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To: PhiKapMom
Does this mean I win the 10 bucks .. LOL
1,268 posted on 06/24/2002 9:48:14 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Howlin; oldvike; truthkeeper
Geez, if we don't go to bed, we'll be drunk........LOL.

LOL!!!!!!!!!

1,269 posted on 06/24/2002 9:48:16 PM PDT by PhiKapMom
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To: Deb
But where's the stick to go with this carrot?

By knowingly offering (in your view) an impossible plan, Bush is setting up the hopes of those who want a Palestinian state right now (like Clinton did in 2000) without stating the consequences of refusing this generous offer.

When it doesn't happen, and the blood runs in the streets in Israel and the occupied territories, then what ?

At least there was a few days without a successful terrorist attack on Israel so this initiative could be squeezed in. I wonder how many more will be murdered while we play this game?

1,270 posted on 06/24/2002 9:48:31 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: Mo1
I would say the 10 bucks is yours!
1,271 posted on 06/24/2002 9:48:43 PM PDT by PhiKapMom
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To: EternalVigilance
Disagree like the allies we are?

What a sensible and terrific thing to contemplate. I would hope that will be a reality around here soon. Hillary is waiting in the wings sharpening her executive order pencil.
Make no mistake, we all have a lot to lose. Fighting among ourselves is not productive in the least.
1,272 posted on 06/24/2002 9:48:53 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: Deb
Deb wrote: I have a feeling Rush will be giving us Levin's theory on what to do in Israel tomorrow.

There's no mystery what Limbaugh's riff will be:

"Talking about a Palestinian state at this stage is rewarding terrorism"

No war can end peacefully until one combatant or the other has been beaten into total and abject submission"

"Israel should be allowed to crush the Palestinians until they plead for peace."

Rush got an op/ed published in the Washington Post about the need for total and unambiguous victory by one side or the other in war, and this has been his sole talking point on the Middle East ever since.

1,273 posted on 06/24/2002 9:52:01 PM PDT by quidnunc
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To: Deb
I have a feeling Rush will be giving us Levin's theory on what to do in Israel tomorrow. Both he and Hannity have been channeling The Great One for weeks.

.....and isn't it funny that none of them will ever be close to a position to put their "perfect" ideas to the test.

It's awfully safe to rip into the quarterback when one doesn't even have a uniform, let alone run the risk of calling the wrong play.

1,274 posted on 06/24/2002 9:54:28 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: ladyinred
I would hope that will be a reality around here soon. Hillary is waiting in the wings sharpening her executive order pencil.

Truer words were never spoken. Brrrrr....I get chills just thinking about it...

1,275 posted on 06/24/2002 9:54:30 PM PDT by truthkeeper
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To: Howlin
And it is ALWAYS the people who are suppose to be on OUR side. It just amazes me. But we are just not now and never will be conservative enough for them.

I really don't think conservatism has much to do with it among many. Remember the primaries? When McCain bashed evangelicals Saffire, Podhoretz and Kristol were effusive in their praise. The "conservative" New York Post could not say enough good about McCain. I believe we have just witnessed a similar phenomemon tonight on this thread. It is not about conservative issues. It is all about religion.

1,276 posted on 06/24/2002 9:54:42 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: quidnunc
I'll bet you Mark Levin wrote it.
1,277 posted on 06/24/2002 9:54:50 PM PDT by Deb
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To: kristinn
Apparently you assume the Palestinian Arabs will have as much trouble understanding the meaning of the plain English (and it was quite plain) of the Bush speech as "Levin" did. You may have a point. But hopefully others will help the Palestinian Arabs to get the true message, just in case they missed it, as condensed to its core by moi: "You must fumigate your own house, or you will be consigned to live in your own self created excrement."
1,278 posted on 06/24/2002 9:56:16 PM PDT by Torie
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To: kristinn
Looks to me as if the Israelis are satisfied with what Bush said. Here's the headline from the Jerusalem Post:

Jerusalem delighted, Palestinians distraught:"We see speech as Hebrew words translated into English"

1,279 posted on 06/24/2002 9:56:50 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: habs4ever
I was asking you to be direct in your smear but you dodge the issue and try to turn it back to me. How typical of a bully when challenged.
1,280 posted on 06/24/2002 9:57:16 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: kristinn
But where's the stick to go with this carrot?

His speech was very good, but you're right about the stick.

If there is a stick, there is truly a great burden ahead, one which most Americans aren't prepped for.

I am of the opinion that it was high rhetoric...

On the other hand, this could lead us into a grand [choose your word] war.

I'm leaning toward this latter option, based on today's speech.

1,281 posted on 06/24/2002 9:57:44 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Howlin
So...did I miss anything good?
1,282 posted on 06/24/2002 9:57:49 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Torie
For any sane person, the message of this speech is "this is an offer you had better not refuse".

1,283 posted on 06/24/2002 9:58:59 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: Darlin'
Darlin' wrote: Yep, that is how he seemed to me as well.

I get the impression that: (1) there are people who monitor FR and report any Rush-bashing to Limbaugh, and (2) when it occurrs it irritates Rush more than a little.

I don't get the impression thatr Rush himself spends much if any time on FR, he has staff to do his grunt work now.

1,284 posted on 06/24/2002 9:59:01 PM PDT by quidnunc
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis
Kinda like them "principled" third party, constitutional-pro-drug-Libertarian FReepers.

Beware the BUILD-A-BURGERS!!!!

1,285 posted on 06/24/2002 9:59:47 PM PDT by Deb
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To: kristinn
Holy s###, now the flying monkeys are going after you too? Join the boat we're all evil now, even Rush.

I don't believe the absurd psychology going on around here, there's got to be a clinical name for it as only pathectic loons could be so deluded. Speak evil of the mascott/figurehead/icon and you must be torn to shreds, not debated.

I rarely debate any of them any more, I've found their heads to be completly empty with nothing substantive to offer the arena of ideas, unless your ideas are all geared towards furthering a phoney politicians political career. Their entire vacuous life philosophy revolves around one person and one person only.

Just give 'em a friendly wave once in a while, you'd gain more by debating the slow bagger at the grocery store, at least he'd be willing to listen to reason.

1,286 posted on 06/24/2002 10:02:00 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: Deb
I tend to think you may be surprised about what Rush will say tomorrow about this speech. I too have been one critical of the Administration's policy on Israel/Palestinian territories up until today (last week, actually, when the U.S. was supportive of Israel's move back into the West Bank). But I think that Bush's speech today was a note of moral clarity and certainly, if the follow-through is as clear, in the face of certain violent Palestinian rejection, as the policy announced today, then there is nothing more that the hard enemies of Islamic terror (of which I am one) can ask for. Bush has set forth the path for a policy of war on the Palestinian terror institution. I believe that Rush will see that and will applaud the President as I do tonight.

Of course, that's only a guess.

1,287 posted on 06/24/2002 10:03:18 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Luis Gonzalez
LOL.....buy the Cliff Notes!
1,288 posted on 06/24/2002 10:03:23 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Fred Mertz
I think Bush handed the stick to Mr. Sharon...and he took it.
1,289 posted on 06/24/2002 10:03:49 PM PDT by Deb
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To: kristinn
Bush is setting up the hopes of those who want a Palestinian state right now (like Clinton did in 2000) without stating the consequences of refusing this generous offer.

I thought he did, pretty much in so many words, with the quote from Deuteronomy about choosing between life and death.

1,290 posted on 06/24/2002 10:04:05 PM PDT by denydenydeny
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To: kristinn
It looks like you're implying that his loyalty is to Israel first because he's Jewish. Am I wrong here?

Yes you are wrong.

Rush and Hannity agree with Levin. It is silly to suggest anyone of them puts Israel before America.

Mark is a rock solid conservative. Whatever his motive is for having the position on Bush and Israel he does, it is not because he puts America second. Mark Levin is a patriot.

That is what is so frustrating about this topic. Write one thing and immediately someone extends the meaning into something not intended. It always ends up in the same place : "youse all a bunch of Nazis."

1,291 posted on 06/24/2002 10:04:22 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: AAABEST
furthering a phoney politicians political career

My father calls George Bush a "phoney politician".

Of course, my father is a Democrat.

1,292 posted on 06/24/2002 10:04:42 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
That'll teach you to leave. We should have stopped at YOUR posts, IMO!
1,293 posted on 06/24/2002 10:04:57 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Deb
A PBA ban won't substantially affect abortion; it's just election-year pandering. It's the free sqare on the population control bingo card. And I didn't bring it up; TexasForever did, and I called him on it. But I won't say any more about it on this thread, devolved as it is.
1,294 posted on 06/24/2002 10:05:38 PM PDT by toenail
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To: AAABEST
rarely debate any of them any more,

I can understand that. You are not good at it.

1,295 posted on 06/24/2002 10:06:03 PM PDT by Texasforever
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To: LarryLied
That's why I asked you to clarify what you wrote. Thank you for doing so.
1,296 posted on 06/24/2002 10:06:31 PM PDT by kristinn
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To: section9
Good post.

I don't know why we continue to plow the same ground over and over and over. The warm fuzzies gained by upholding one's principled high ground by voting for someone who doesn't stand a chance of getting elected ( I think it was PhilKapMom who did an excellent job earlier of pointing out that the 'other parties' made up a whopping 3.5% of the vote) is the EXACT same thing that is happening now....on a smaller scale.

We are doing it again...we are turning on ourselves...we are like political cannibals.....with our righteous indignation. You nailed it when you stated: "He simply makes tactical adjustments to get there. This disappoints some of us on this board. But that's real politics. That's how it's done out there."

Sigh.
1,297 posted on 06/24/2002 10:07:04 PM PDT by justshe
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To: justshe
Uh oh!

Bush's speech "fell short" say Muslims
CAIR Press Release | June 24, 2002 | Council on American-Islamic Relations

Posted on 6/25/02 1:05 AM Eastern by Stultis

Bush's speech "fell short" say Muslims

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

(Washington, D.C., 6/24/2002)

A prominent national Islamic advocacy group today said President Bush's speech outlining his vision for peace in the Middle East put too much emphasis on Palestinian concessions and too little pressure on Israel to act in accordance with international law.

In a statement reacting to the president's speech, Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) Executive Director Nihad Awad said:

"There were a number of positive aspects to President Bush's proposals for peace and stability in the Middle East. These positive initiatives include the demand for a freeze on Israeli settlement activity, increased humanitarian assistance, an end to the Israeli occupation based on U.N. resolutions, and a call for freedom of movement for ordinary Palestinians. We also appreciated the president's recognition of the 'anger and despair' brought on by Israel's brutal occupation.

"The speech was a step in the right direction, but it fell short of offering a clear vision of the ultimate destination. Core issues such as the status of Jerusalem and existing Israeli settlements, final borders and the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes, were not addressed in a way that offers hope for a just and comprehensive settlement to the Middle East conflict. It was the failure to address these vital issues that brought us to the current impasse.

"The right to freedom should never be conditioned on the whims of a hostile party and must not face a veto by any individual, group or government opposed to peace. It is up to the Palestinians themselves to choose their leaders in a free and independent political process. That leadership should reflect the hopes and aspirations of all Palestinians.

"Our policies in the Middle East should be based on American national interests and on universal values of freedom and justice, not on the political and religious agenda of an influential domestic lobby for a foreign government."

Awad thanked the president for his statements in praise of Islamic culture and its contributions to world civilization. He said those comments were particularly significant given the current atmosphere of anti-Muslim rhetoric.

1,298 posted on 06/24/2002 10:07:52 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Deb
Do you mean these guys?


1,299 posted on 06/24/2002 10:08:40 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: toenail; DoughtyOne
From your point of view, not mine, to effect anything more than PBA, and for that matter, PBA lite, you will need to have a different cast on SCOTUS, a cast that would never be confirmed as things now stand. So now you need to come up with the plan Doughty One said he had, but never chose to reveal to us, to change all that.
1,300 posted on 06/24/2002 10:09:46 PM PDT by Torie
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