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Enough, already, from the evangelical atheists
Houston Chronicle ^ | July 2, 2002 | MARTIN MILLER

Posted on 07/02/2002 5:16:45 PM PDT by Dog Gone

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To: Dog Gone
It's empirically verifiable that there is no Santa Claus.

I don't see how.

21 posted on 07/02/2002 8:47:42 PM PDT by Anamensis
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To: jennyp
Yes, exactly. I think he really went wrong with the Santa analogy. It's a very valid comparison. Insulting, sure. But... so?
22 posted on 07/02/2002 8:49:55 PM PDT by Anamensis
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To: Dog Gone
[Newdow] told reporters he doesn't believe in God for the same reason he doesn't believe in Santa Claus. ...But I would never make such a comparison, nor would many atheists I know. We wouldn't because it not only is bad manners and shows a lack of intellectual humility...

When Nathaniel Branden started the Nathaniel Brandon Institute in the '60s meetings were sometimes attended by a few hundred people, often with Ayn Rand up on stage behind Branden. Ludwig von Mises once came with his wife, and she later related the experience. She told of serious, nervous looking people who smoked incessantly (I always imagine them as a prototypical pocket protector crowd with Brill Creamed hair and a band-aid holding their black-rimmed glasses together at the bridge of the nose). She said the only time any levity entered the room was when the word "God" was mentioned. Then everybody snickered in unison.

"Intellectual humility" is not a strong suit among atheists, having been replaced by a knowing snicker. These poor souls have come to the wholly unwarranted conviction that our meager advances in understanding the natural world somehow solve the unfathomable mystery of existence. It is a pitiable position, in my opinion, the there of no there there fame.

23 posted on 07/02/2002 10:05:56 PM PDT by beckett
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To: Anamensis; Dog Gone
>>It's empirically verifiable that there is no Santa Claus.

>I don't see how.

If we're trying for a scientific formulation, we have to expand this somewhat awkwardly:

"Repeated observations, under stringently controlled conditions, have failed to find credible evidence for the existence of Santa Claus. Therefore, the null hypothesis (i.e., that there is no Santa Claus) suggests itself as worthy of (contingent) adoption, and workers in this field will in general find it worth their precious time to seek other issues to investigate"

24 posted on 07/02/2002 10:22:49 PM PDT by Erasmus
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To: Dog Gone
Great article. This person has restored my faith in atheists! :)
25 posted on 07/02/2002 10:26:30 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: jennyp
Jennyp

I am real, so is Santa

GOD

:>)
26 posted on 07/02/2002 10:28:28 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: angelo

I don't see how you can empirically verify that there is no Santa Claus.

Instead of going to the media, Virginia could have stayed up all night waiting for the jolly old elf to come down the chimney. Seems pretty empirical to me.

Obviously that would merely be empirical evidence that Virginia wasn't a good enough girl!
27 posted on 07/02/2002 11:06:50 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: beckett

"Intellectual humility" is not a strong suit among atheists, having been replaced by a knowing snicker. These poor souls have come to the wholly unwarranted conviction that our meager advances in understanding the natural world somehow solve the unfathomable mystery of existence. It is a pitiable position, in my opinion, the there of no there there fame.

On the contrary, our advances in understanding have yet to provide evidence of a supernatural person out there, while explaining a whole heckuva lot of questions we had all had about the natural world.

28 posted on 07/02/2002 11:10:46 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: Dog Gone
"Well-Adjusted Atheist Doesn't Object to `God.' "

Good first step..

29 posted on 07/02/2002 11:13:48 PM PDT by Texas Mom
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To: snopercod
I think Bob Dylan said it best: "If God's on our side, He'll stop the next war."
30 posted on 07/02/2002 11:16:00 PM PDT by Bob Quixote
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To: JCG
I wonder if the guards at the concentration camps wore those buckles.
31 posted on 07/02/2002 11:18:28 PM PDT by Bob Quixote
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To: Bob Quixote
Thanks for the Dylan memory. I think I have that album around here somewhere.
32 posted on 07/03/2002 2:44:18 AM PDT by snopercod
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To: Bob Quixote
I wonder if the guards at the concentration camps wore those buckles.

Elie Weisel remembers some of the guards at Dachau going to church on Sunday mornings with their famlies.

They must have believed in something

33 posted on 07/03/2002 3:02:41 AM PDT by catonsville
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To: Dog Gone
Most people who think they will get social security can be thought of people of 'faith'.


BUMP

34 posted on 07/03/2002 3:35:25 AM PDT by tm22721
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To: Erasmus
Ah, but evidence of Santa Claus is everywhere, and scientists deliberately ignore it... all you have to do is have faith and you can see the hand of Santa all around you ... every year people give gifts at Christmas, this is Santa working through them. Store managers start decorating for Christmas in mid October, this is the hand of Santa! Adults feel strangely compelled to trick their children, dress up as Santa... who do you think is influencing them to do this?! The spirit of Santa is in every Christmas tree parking lot. He is the miracle that keeps most people's overloaded electrical outlets from exploding when they plug in their christmas lights... (and on and on, you get my dritf).
35 posted on 07/03/2002 4:52:19 AM PDT by Anamensis
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To: beckett
"Intellectual humility" tends to be one of those traits that people wish on others.
36 posted on 07/03/2002 4:55:40 AM PDT by Anamensis
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To: jennyp; Dog Gone; angelo; Senator Pardek; Anamensis; Erasmus
"I don't see how you can empirically verify that there is no Santa Claus."

This reminds me of an old email that I dug up out of my Humor box:

There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu, Jewish or Buddhist (except maybe in Japan)religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the population reference bureau). At an average census rate of 3.5 children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming there is at least one good child in each.

Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 967.7 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with a good child, Santa has around 1/1000 th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stocking, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get onto the next house.

Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false, but will accept for the purposes of our calculations), we are now talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting bathroom stops or breaks. This means Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second--3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second, and a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles per hour.

The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized LEGO set(two pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500 thousands tons, not counting Santa himself. On land, a conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that the "flying" reindeer can pull 10 times the normal amount, the job can't be done with eight or even nine of them---Santa would need 360,000 of them. This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh, another 54,000 tons, or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch).

600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as a spacecraft reentering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy per second each.

In short, they would burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team would be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second, or right about the time Santa reached the fifth house on his trip. Not that it matters, however, since Santa, as a result of accelerating from a dead stop to 650 m.p.s. in .001 seconds,would be subjected to acceleration forces of 17,000 g's.

A 250 pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and reducing him to a quivering blob of pink goo.

Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now. Merry Christmas

37 posted on 07/03/2002 7:07:40 AM PDT by elfman2
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To: Dog Gone
I like an honest atheist! Honesty is a virtue and attribute of God.
38 posted on 07/03/2002 7:15:35 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Bob Quixote
Unlikely ... or are you aware of German-run concentration camps during the First World War?
39 posted on 07/03/2002 7:24:57 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
Or I could be wrong. Which I am.

I hereby offer my profuse apologies. (I was aware only of the WWI version). A quick check of the net ... which I should have done first ... clearly shows the Germans also had "Gott mit uns" belt buckles during the Second World War.

So, yeah ... I also wonder if the concentration camp guards wore them.

40 posted on 07/03/2002 7:30:28 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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