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Best Books - Non-fiction military (war story) - Freeper opinions wanted!

Posted on 07/05/2002 4:46:49 PM PDT by Enlightiator

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To: Enlightiator
Correction. In "Prodigal Soldiers" Colin Powell in 1973 returns to line duty as Lt. Col. Powell in command of the 1st Battalion, 32nd Infantry Division in South Korea, not Vietnam. "Even on a good day, the 32nd was well below its authorized manpower...Indeed, by nearly every indication, the division was teetering on the brink of armed anarchy on foreign soil."

For anyone interested in how an army is built, sustained, debased, and re-constructed, "Prodigal Soldiers" is a text book.

LBJ's Project 100,000, a Great Society Program funnelled almost 300,000 of the "subterranean poor" mostly black, many of whom could not read or write, into the military. According to a Pentagon study, their "attrition by death" rate was nearly double that of other Vietnam era troops.

The book opens with the re-built junior officer corps now senior officers preparing for Desert Storm. It closes with an epilogue in which Barry McCaffrey, now General McCaffrey acting as the Pentagon's unofficial ambassador to the executive branch in the Clinton administration is told by a "fortyish woman" staffer, "I don't talk to the military."


61 posted on 07/08/2002 12:10:44 PM PDT by Barset
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To: M1911A1
What a great link. Thank you for posting it. Am going to have to drop a couple of kids, dogs, and husband in the deep piney to make room for the terrific books on this thread and the link you provided. Thanks again.
62 posted on 07/08/2002 12:15:22 PM PDT by Barset
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To: Enlightiator
The Soldier's Load and the Mobility of a Nation by S. L. Marshall.

Should be required reading by all the leaders in the 101st and 10th Mtn in Afganistan humping 75lb rucks at 6,000'

Nothing is too heavy for the man that dosen't have to carry it.
63 posted on 07/08/2002 12:19:35 PM PDT by MP5SD
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bump
64 posted on 07/08/2002 12:20:47 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Enlightiator
"Flags of Our Fathers" - A must read.
65 posted on 07/08/2002 12:21:26 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: Enlightiator
In addition to "Band of Brothers", by Stephan Ambrose are:
"The Wild Blue",
"The Victors", and
"Pegasus Bridge".
In fact, anything written by Ambrose will be a great read. His research is impeccable, draws heavily on first-hand accounts, and is as readable as history gets.
66 posted on 07/08/2002 12:25:08 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: 185JHP
Have you read "Dispatches"

I have, and while it is an interesting book, the author's ignorance of things military and focus on the darker side of the war have to be taken into account. And while he offers many relevent observations, many of the authors conclusions are way off base. A better book on why we failed in Vietnam is "War Without Windows". I forget the author, but he an intelligence officer during the war and goes into great detail how much of the intelligance that was gathered was ignored, mis-interpreted, and mis-used.

67 posted on 07/08/2002 12:36:59 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: Enlightiator
"A Soldier's Story" by Omar Bradley.

When you put that book down you'll be proud to be an American. It's one of the best books I've read.

"The Longest Day" by Cornelius Ryan. Does a great job of depicting the panorama of d-Day (not a bad movie either).

68 posted on 07/08/2002 12:45:21 PM PDT by Pietro
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To: Enlightiator
Despite the fact that he is pretty clearly guilty of plagiarism Pegasus Bridge by Stephen Ambrose is very good. It goes into a lot of detail about the British glider company that is tasked with securing two strategically important bridges on D-Day.

The Forgotten Soldier by Guy Sajer is good. It is his account of service as a German soldier on the Eastern front (I think he uses a little literary license here and there, but the tension of war seems authentic).

Finally Five Years to Freedom by Nick Rowe is great. He was a prisoner of the vietcong for five years until his escape in the late 1960s. He later founded the US Army SERE school for POW instruction.

69 posted on 07/08/2002 12:51:09 PM PDT by 91B
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To: Enlightiator
I'll chip in 4 books, 2 cover the Russian campaign, and 2 US Subs in WW2 (my dad was a submariner in WW2).

2 are written by Dick O'Kane (MOH, 3 Navy crosses): "Wahoo: ZThe Patrols of America's most Famous WW2 Submarine, "Clear the Bridge: The War Patrols of the USS Tang". Great reads by an American hero (O'Kane served with Mush Morton on the Wahoo, before getting his own boat, I believe Morton also won the MOH.

THe 2 on the Russian front are written from a German perspective, meticlously researched from Germna Archives, written in the late 1950's. Paul Carrell:"Hitler's moves East, 1941-1943" covers the start of Barbarossa through Manstein's stabilizing the Southern Front after Stalingrad, and "Scorched Earth" picks up where Hitlers moves East leaves off and covers Kursk theorugh the destruction of Army Group Center, and the retreat to Germany.

70 posted on 07/08/2002 1:07:48 PM PDT by Leto
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To: Enlightiator
Some info on Dick O'Kane:

Dick O'Kane Obit:
Richard O' Kane, a rear Admiral who won Medal of Honor as submarine commander in World War II, died of pneumonia Wednesday February 16, 1994 at a nursing home in Petaluma, California. He was 83.

He retired in 1957, and won the Medal of Honor for valor as commander of the USS Tang in South Pacific. The Tang sank a Japanese ship every 11 days on five patrols and rescued scores of US fliers who had been shot down in raids on Japanese ships and bases. During one patrol in Formosa Strait on October 24-25, 1944, the Tang sank 110,000 tons of Japanese shipping, including a destroyer. The submarine then fell victim to her 24th and last torpedo when it malfunctioned, circled back and hit the Tang, killing all but 9 of her 87-man crew.

The commander and other survivors were taken prisoner and spent the last ten months of the war in a prison near Tokyo, where they were subjected to beatings and a starvation diet. (He weighed 88lbs at the end of the war, he was over 6ft tall).

After the war, he was promoted to Captain and commanded the Submarine School in New London, Connecticut, before retiring as a Rear Admiral and settling in California. In retirement, he wrote two books about his war experiences: "Clear the Bridge" in 1977 and "Wahoo" in 1987.

Born in Durham, New Hampshire, where his father, Walter, was a professor at the University of New Hampshire. He graduated from the US Naval Academy in 1934.

He is survived by wife, Ernestine, whom he married in 1936 and who lives in Petaluma. February 2, 1911-February 16, 1994.

He is buried in Arlington National Cemetery, Section 59, Grave 874.

O'Kane MOH Citation:
Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Tang operating against 2 enemy Japanese convoys on 23 and 24 October 1944, during her fifth and last war patrol. Boldly maneuvering on the surface into the midst of a heavily escorted convoy, Comdr. O'Kane stood in the fusillade of bullets and shells from all directions to launch smashing hits on 3 tankers, coolly swung his ship to fire at a freighter and, in a split-second decision, shot out of the path of an onrushing transport, missing it by inches. Boxed in by blazing tankers, a freighter, transport, and several destroyers, he blasted 2 of the targets with his remaining torpedoes and, with pyrotechnics bursting on all sides, cleared the area. Twenty-four hours later, he again made contact with a heavily escorted convoy steaming to support the Leyte campaign with reinforcements and supplies and with crated planes piled high on each unit. In defiance of the enemy's relentless fire, he closed the concentration of ship and in quick succession sent 2 torpedoes each into the first and second transports and an adjacent tanker, finding his mark with each torpedo in a series of violent explosions at less than l,000-yard range. With ships bearing down from all sides, he charged the enemy at high speed, exploding the tanker in a burst of flame, smashing the transport dead in the water, and blasting the destroyer with a mighty roar which rocked the Tang from stem to stern. Expending his last 2 torpedoes into the remnants of a once powerful convoy before his own ship went down, Comdr. O'Kane, aided by his gallant command, achieved an illustrious record of heroism in combat, enhancing the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service.

71 posted on 07/08/2002 2:06:53 PM PDT by Leto
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To: Enlightiator
Not exactly military but well worth the time it takes to read it are William Manchester's two volume biography of Winston Churchill. "The Last Lion: Visions of Glory" and "The Last Lion: Alone". Enjoy these two, it doesn't look like he will finish volume 3.
72 posted on 07/08/2002 4:48:20 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: archy
Iron Coffins
by Herbert Wenner
I found it to be an overall better and more interesting book regarding the U-Boats in the Atlantic than Das Boot. Wenner writes about his personal experiences, right up to his capture and escape from the Allies at the end of the war.

Riveting stuff. The best of the genre.

73 posted on 07/08/2002 5:04:33 PM PDT by steve in DC
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To: Pelham
The destruction of a Tory army at King's Mountain by a militia of "overmountain men" armed with Kentucky long rifles.

Very timely! My wife and I and our youngest son walked the trail of battle of Kings Mountain just this past weekend. It had been more than a few years since I had been there, but it was still very moving to walk the ridge trail where the battle took place and read the signposts at various parts of the trail. Over a thousand patriot troops, including the Overmountain men, fought this battle against Major Patrick Ferguson and his equal number of "tories," loyalists who fought for England. The battle only lasted about an hour, Ferguson made the mistake of putting his men on top of the clear ridge, while the patriots fought from cover below! Heres a good link about this battle: Battle of Kings Mountain

74 posted on 07/08/2002 7:19:57 PM PDT by Enlightiator
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To: killjoy; tabsternager; PJ-Comix; Skooz; razorbak; 185JHP; Barset; OKSooner; Cincinatus; MP5SD; ...
Thanks for more leads on great military books, this thread is far superior to the small list I started with. I'm always looking for that rare great gem out there thats so worthy of reading but for whatever reasons never made it big, and I am sure there are several in this big list you guys are making.

I especially want to thank those who posted new military book list links or gave descriptions to their suggesting reading lists. I make special not of those posters who say their suggestion is a "must read" or the "may be the best book on..." Those are the kind of books I want to read!
75 posted on 07/08/2002 7:30:29 PM PDT by Enlightiator
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To: Enlightiator
FWIW If you can find the paperback "A Station in the Delta" I think you would enjoy it but it's fiction. And if you can find it and haven't already seen it the movie "Boys (sic) in Company C" has some good stuff in it - "Nikons Are In".
76 posted on 07/08/2002 8:55:37 PM PDT by 185JHP
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To: PsyOp
I hope you're not laboring under the misconception that the military brass - guys with stars on their uniforms - weren't TACFU much of the time, and directly responsible for much of the horror - "Dereliction of Duty" lays it out. Honorable men, and scoundrels, were there at the beginning.
77 posted on 07/08/2002 9:01:40 PM PDT by 185JHP
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To: Barset
"Bloods: An Oral History of the Vietnam War by Black Veterans" by Wallace Terry.

The chapter about the patrol finding an American soldier who had been captured and was still alive just about made me throw up. What an awful decision to have to make. Talk about a real horror of war!

78 posted on 07/08/2002 9:17:59 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: Enlightiator
The greatest war book, although it's historical fiction, is War and Peace (originally titled 1805), about Napoleon's invasion of Russia. There are long, technical military sections (I drew diagrams when I read it), as well as insights into Russian aristocrats who somewhat playfully head out to stop their anti-Christ.

In one scene, a young Russian officer is shot off his horse, and lying wounded in the snow wonders detachedly why some French soldiers are running. He suddenly realizes "Could it be...to kill me? Me, whom everyone likes?"

Tolstoi commanded a battery in the Crimean war in the 1850's.

79 posted on 07/08/2002 9:37:56 PM PDT by monkey
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To: Enlightiator
I can ditto We Were Soldiers Once...and the Killer Angels, but probably the greatest non-fiction war books of all time (Nobel Prize winner, when that really meant something) simply have to be the six volume history of World War Two by Winston Churchill.

Nothing else that I have ever read really even comes within a country mile. Indeed, the cycle is as much geo-political history as a war story, but for truly understanding all aspects of World War Two -- including the actual fighting -- there is nothing more definitive on the face of the earth, nor will there ever be.

And Churchill is one of the great writers of our time, on top of all his other talents.

80 posted on 07/08/2002 9:44:11 PM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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