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What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie? (Is fat good for you)
NYTimes ^ | July 7, 2002 | GARY TAUBES

Posted on 07/11/2002 6:29:34 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA

NOTE: Article is EIGHT pages long, I am only posting the first page, feel free to add other pages as you see fit

f the members of the American medical establishment were to have a collective find-yourself-standing-naked-in-Times-Square-type nightmare, this might be it. They spend 30 years ridiculing Robert Atkins, author of the phenomenally-best-selling ''Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution'' and ''Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution,'' accusing the Manhattan doctor of quackery and fraud, only to discover that the unrepentant Atkins was right all along. Or maybe it's this: they find that their very own dietary recommendations -- eat less fat and more carbohydrates -- are the cause of the rampaging epidemic of obesity in America. Or, just possibly this: they find out both of the above are true.

When Atkins first published his ''Diet Revolution'' in 1972, Americans were just coming to terms with the proposition that fat -- particularly the saturated fat of meat and dairy products -- was the primary nutritional evil in the American diet. Atkins managed to sell millions of copies of a book promising that we would lose weight eating steak, eggs and butter to our heart's desire, because it was the carbohydrates, the pasta, rice, bagels and sugar, that caused obesity and even heart disease. Fat, he said, was harmless.

Atkins allowed his readers to eat ''truly luxurious foods without limit,'' as he put it, ''lobster with butter sauce, steak with bearnaise sauce . . . bacon cheeseburgers,'' but allowed no starches or refined carbohydrates, which means no sugars or anything made from flour. Atkins banned even fruit juices, and permitted only a modicum of vegetables, although the latter were negotiable as the diet progressed.

Atkins was by no means the first to get rich pushing a high-fat diet that restricted carbohydrates, but he popularized it to an extent that the American Medical Association considered it a potential threat to our health. The A.M.A. attacked Atkins's diet as a ''bizarre regimen'' that advocated ''an unlimited intake of saturated fats and cholesterol-rich foods,'' and Atkins even had to defend his diet in Congressional hearings.

Thirty years later, America has become weirdly polarized on the subject of weight. On the one hand, we've been told with almost religious certainty by everyone from the surgeon general on down, and we have come to believe with almost religious certainty, that obesity is caused by the excessive consumption of fat, and that if we eat less fat we will lose weight and live longer. On the other, we have the ever-resilient message of Atkins and decades' worth of best-selling diet books, including ''The Zone,'' ''Sugar Busters'' and ''Protein Power'' to name a few. All push some variation of what scientists would call the alternative hypothesis: it's not the fat that makes us fat, but the carbohydrates, and if we eat less carbohydrates we will lose weight and live longer.

The perversity of this alternative hypothesis is that it identifies the cause of obesity as precisely those refined carbohydrates at the base of the famous Food Guide Pyramid -- the pasta, rice and bread -- that we are told should be the staple of our healthy low-fat diet, and then on the sugar or corn syrup in the soft drinks, fruit juices and sports drinks that we have taken to consuming in quantity if for no other reason than that they are fat free and so appear intrinsically healthy. While the low-fat-is-good-health dogma represents reality as we have come to know it, and the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in research trying to prove its worth, the low-carbohydrate message has been relegated to the realm of unscientific fantasy.

Over the past five years, however, there has been a subtle shift in the scientific consensus. It used to be that even considering the possibility of the alternative hypothesis, let alone researching it, was tantamount to quackery by association. Now a small but growing minority of establishment researchers have come to take seriously what the low-carb-diet doctors have been saying all along. Walter Willett, chairman of the department of nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health, may be the most visible proponent of testing this heretic hypothesis. Willett is the de facto spokesman of the longest-running, most comprehensive diet and health studies ever performed, which have already cost upward of $100 million and include data on nearly 300,000 individuals. Those data, says Willett, clearly contradict the low-fat-is-good-health message ''and the idea that all fat is bad for you; the exclusive focus on adverse effects of fat may have contributed to the obesity epidemic.''

These researchers point out that there are plenty of reasons to suggest that the low-fat-is-good-health hypothesis has now effectively failed the test of time. In particular, that we are in the midst of an obesity epidemic that started around the early 1980's, and that this was coincident with the rise of the low-fat dogma. (Type 2 diabetes, the most common form of the disease, also rose significantly through this period.) They say that low-fat weight-loss diets have proved in clinical trials and real life to be dismal failures, and that on top of it all, the percentage of fat in the American diet has been decreasing for two decades. Our cholesterol levels have been declining, and we have been smoking less, and yet the incidence of heart disease has not declined as would be expected. ''That is very disconcerting,'' Willett says. ''It suggests that something else bad is happening.''

The science behind the alternative hypothesis can be called Endocrinology 101, which is how it's referred to by David Ludwig, a researcher at Harvard Medical School who runs the pediatric obesity clinic at Children's Hospital Boston, and who prescribes his own version of a carbohydrate-restricted diet to his patients. Endocrinology 101 requires an understanding of how carbohydrates affect insulin and blood sugar and in turn fat metabolism and appetite. This is basic endocrinology, Ludwig says, which is the study of hormones, and it is still considered radical because the low-fat dietary wisdom emerged in the 1960's from researchers almost exclusively concerned with the effect of fat on cholesterol and heart disease. At the time, Endocrinology 101 was still underdeveloped, and so it was ignored. Now that this science is becoming clear, it has to fight a quarter century of anti-fat prejudice.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: diet; health; news; peta; sports; vegan; vegitarian
Well, as someone who diets every year to lose what I like to call my "Winter Weight", I usually cut out a lot of fat and carbs and fill that hole with fibers that are not as readily absorbed and also change what kind of fats I take such as instead of red meat, I will eat more fish and chicken and nuts.

I don't think fat is defacto bad for you as the paradigm says, but I do stand by what even my great grandfather used to say: "Everything in moderation".

All in all, I still believe in eating sensibly, EXERCISE!, and general healthy living will beat any vegan, or pre-processed low fat, or pill induced diet.

Perhaps science is finally starting to agree with me. :)

1 posted on 07/11/2002 6:29:34 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Outraged At FLA
Fat = Flavor
2 posted on 07/11/2002 6:37:16 AM PDT by Phantom Lord
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To: Outraged At FLA
Elsewhere the FDA is going to require the labeling of trans-fatty acids in foods -- which they now claim are bad in any amount. This would include anything "hydrogenated" and occurs also in meats, especially upon heating for cooking.

A better source of fats would be something like flax seed or fish oils.

3 posted on 07/11/2002 6:39:20 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Outraged At FLA
I agree, I went on the Atkins diet and lost weight. Plus I felt great. I went off the diet and my cholesterol shot thru the roof. (400) My Dr. said eat Carbs etc. My choleserol stayed high. Then Lipitor, it came down to 288. Finally I convenced my Doc, it's the Carbs that are causing the problem. i am going back on the Atkins diet, to lose weight and bring down my cholesterol. Carbs are BAD for you. They may kill me!!!!

My Daughter is on Atkins, she had her choleserol checked and her results were 81 and 84. Her #'s are to low. I'm sick of these people pushing the one rule for everyone. humans are different. What's right for one, may kill another. But, that is the collectivist thought process. If you don't fit the mold, you deserve to die.
4 posted on 07/11/2002 6:44:39 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Outraged At FLA
I heard a great radio interview about this subject this morning. The doctor who was the guest on the show said that the U.S. Department of Agriculture is directly responsible for the rise in obesity levels in this country. I never knew this, but he said that childhood obesity was never a serious problem until the USDA began publishing that stupid "food group pyramid" with all the grain products at the bottom.

Maybe I'm just a little simplistic here when I suggest we should ignore the entire carbohydrates/fat discussion. If your daily caloric intake matches the number of calories you burn every day, you won't have a problem (which is why exercise is far more important than dieting in any weight-loss program).

5 posted on 07/11/2002 6:44:56 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Alberta's Child
I agree AC, exercise is probably the most important part of being healthy more than diet.

Did you ever notice that just about EVERY diet mentions exercise? I heard a doctor say once that you could eat big macs for breakfast, lunch, and dinner as long as you exercised every day, you probably wouldn't gain weight.

6 posted on 07/11/2002 6:49:23 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Outraged At FLA
Your link is labelled NY Times but goes to a Time Magazine 5 page article on whether we should be vegetarians or not.
7 posted on 07/11/2002 6:54:58 AM PDT by LiveFreeOrDieTryin
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To: marty60
They didn't need to do major studies about this - they should have just looked at the low carb bulletin boards for plenty of proof about long term weight loss and health on Atkins and related diets. My doctor suggested a low carb diet for me as the only one she knew that really works. It worked quickly, lowered blood pressure - cured all the ills from the days when I was a near-vegetarian.
8 posted on 07/11/2002 6:55:12 AM PDT by Moonmad27
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To: LiveFreeOrDieTryin
Oh, your right, I am sorry, the link to the article is here:

9 posted on 07/11/2002 6:56:58 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Alberta's Child
If your daily caloric intake matches the number of calories you burn every day, you won't have a problem (which is why exercise is far more important than dieting in any weight-loss program).

That's the skinny(har har.) Folks get sucked into buying "fat free" fig newtons or "fat free" gummy bears, perhaps not understanding that calories which are not spent are stored--as FAT. Of course, some calories are better than others nutritionally. But I don't know why this requires any special science. Eat your vegetables, go easy on the starches, and get plenty of exercise. Hell, my granny coulda told me that (she did!) If some folks do well on a high meat, low carb diet, I guess that's an option. I like to eat steak from time to time. But for me what works is about 60% vegetables, 20% protein and 20% carbs. And I get a lot of my protein through soy products and fish. I save up my meat intake for the gusto--rib eye steak.

I am interested in studies dealing with cancer and heart disease. I want to learn more about this darned trans fat. That hydrogenated oil is everywhere. I am already a high risk (ex smoker, family history of heart disease and cancer, New Jersey resident, type A personality). I am trying to minimalize the risk as much as possible. If that means no more cheese crackers, so be it.

10 posted on 07/11/2002 7:02:21 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Outraged At FLA
Already posted HERE
11 posted on 07/11/2002 7:04:20 AM PDT by Auntie Mame
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To: Huck
Yeah, Huck, I am right about where you are on diet, once a week (usually sunday) I set aside that day to eat whatever the hell I want, which this week will most likely be a T-BONE. :D
12 posted on 07/11/2002 7:05:46 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Outraged At FLA
I find that my "polar bear morphology" greatly enhances my resistance to cold water, very useful in SCUBA diving in northern New England, and ice diving.
13 posted on 07/11/2002 7:07:11 AM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: Outraged At FLA
I'm on Atkins right now. I find it does work for me, although it requires a lot of pre-preparation for lunch - you can't readily buy low-carb foods at restaurants.

The best thing, though, is I seem to have much more energy, which helps me get motivated to exercise, which helps me loose more weight. I also don't get those 3pm blahs.

Lastly, I've found that my allergies are nearly non-existant when on Atkins, and my skin clears up within a week. I'm convinced its largely due to the elimination of sugar from my diet.

You can get low-carb chocolates that are pretty darn good - makes it easier to stay on. I'm also starting to make sugar-free ice cream (heavy cream has no carbs) with diet sugar. Mmmm.

I can't say it will work for everyone, but I'm a definite Atkins fan.
14 posted on 07/11/2002 7:08:06 AM PDT by babyface00
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To: marty60
Carbs are BAD for you.

No no no no. If carbs were bad for you, the Japanese would be dropping like flies -- they have one of the highest carb diets in the world. Yet they have a higher than average life span and aren't an obese population.

Ultra-low carb diets put you into a state of ketosis in which your fat is converted into glycose. But many people on ketosis state diets just don't get enough glycose to the brain -- they think slower and are always hungry, etc.

The key is MODERATE carb intake -- not ultra low and not super high.

15 posted on 07/11/2002 7:10:30 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Huck; Notforprophet
16 posted on 07/11/2002 7:12:04 AM PDT by 24Karet
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To: Alberta's Child
Historically, the whole world eats starch in bread, potatos, rice, and pasta. The new thing that happens was the refined suger became very cheap in the US, in coparison to the income. Therefore, people start eating lots of sweets. That is the major difference in the diets. In addition, the TV programming became too attractive for the population to sit and watch, which leads to first no excersizes, and second to consumption of snacks!
17 posted on 07/11/2002 7:12:11 AM PDT by philosofy123
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To: Phantom Lord
Fat = Flavor.........................Right. If it tastes good, spit it out.
18 posted on 07/11/2002 7:14:43 AM PDT by billhilly
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To: Outraged At FLA
I had a great-grandfather who worked in a lumber camp in Canada. They ate five meals every day, but they never gained any weight at all. Of course, they burned 7,000-8,000 calories every day!

It's also worth noting that not only is exercise important, but exercise in the morning is crucial. Exercising in the morning tends to raise your metabolism, which means you burn more calories throughout the day when your body is "idle."

19 posted on 07/11/2002 7:21:53 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Outraged At FLA
The savory steak is made that much more gratifying by being able to eat it without being a fat bloated pig. It just seems to me a lot of this ought to be obvious. Drink lots of water. Go to the gym and work out. Get out on the weekends. Duh. But man there are some FAT people out there. Here in NYC, seems like everyone has a huge gut. Bloated. Don't they ever put the fork down? It hurts MY back just looking at their loads; I can't imagine what it feels like carting it around strapped to your frontside.
20 posted on 07/11/2002 7:23:15 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Huck
21 posted on 07/11/2002 7:25:55 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Outraged At FLA
Thanks for all of your witty and intelligent responses so far! Time for my work out (part II), but I will check the thread when I get back!
22 posted on 07/11/2002 7:28:40 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Outraged At FLA
Hehe. I know it's a little harsh. I'm not prejudiced against fat people. But I have seen people so fat they get a handicapped placard. What the hell is that about? I went to the Sizzler breakfast buffet once, and I swear is was like an Obesity Convention. I saw one guy filled up a full plate of bacon, a full plate of eggs, a full plate of taters. And sat down all by himself and went to work on it. And there were about 15 others as big as he was.
23 posted on 07/11/2002 7:42:42 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Huck
Huck, The best thing you could do for your health would be to get the heck out of NJ!! I was born and raised in S.Jersey, left 28yrs ago and have never regretted leaving.
24 posted on 07/11/2002 7:47:39 AM PDT by Shadow Deamon
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To: Alberta's Child
It's also worth noting that not only is exercise important, but exercise in the morning is crucial. Exercising in the morning tends to raise your metabolism, which means you burn more calories throughout the day when your body is "idle."

Right, and not just that, but in the morning, your body tends to be in a fasting state (8 hours, no food), so the main energy supply will be fat..

I am going on an Atkins diet (2 weeks very low car, then switch to moderate, low glycemic level carbs). Everyone in my family (5 sisters, 1 brother) has hypercholesteremia, and lowfat diets have not worked for any of them, we might be Syndrome X types, I am going to give this a try and then have my cholesteral checked in a few months.

25 posted on 07/11/2002 7:50:44 AM PDT by Paradox
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To: marty60
Carbs are BAD for you

I am on a low carb diet and it is the ONLY thing that has worked for me. But I don't think carbs are bad for everyone. My husband and son can eat all they want with no problems. My other two sons and daughter seem to have my metabolism and gain weight with carbs.

26 posted on 07/11/2002 7:53:37 AM PDT by knuthom
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To: philosofy123
Not only that, but I once read that a person burns fewer calories while watching television than while he is sleeping. Go figure.
27 posted on 07/11/2002 8:04:34 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Huck
Here in NYC, seems like everyone has a huge gut.

Living in urban areas has a detrimental effect on people's weight. I think a lot of it is due to the fact that people who spend more time commuting to work have less time to exercise.

28 posted on 07/11/2002 8:06:13 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Shadow Deamon; Huck
Believe it or not, living in New Jersey has some real advantages compared to other places. As bad as the air may seem, I've found that less humid areas tend to have more particulates in the air, which makes it worse for people with a history of even minor respiratory ailments.

Also, the Northeastern U.S. is one of the few parts of the country where you get four seasons that are roughly the same length. For some reason I think that tends to be more "in tune" with the human body.

29 posted on 07/11/2002 8:11:31 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Alberta's Child
Your example is par for the work performed. When I was in College, I worked in a food warehouse. I and my co-workers ate a meal at each of our three breaks, mine was two heavy ham sandwiches at each break. Our job was non-stop work filling grocery store orders (freezer foods) and loading the trucks.

For the last nine years, I have been required to really pour the sweat out in our shop along with the office stuff. On top of this is maintaining the 1.5 acres of the Church for which I belong and my own household and that of some elderly neighbors on occasion.

For these last nine years, my breakfast for the weekday has been six extra large eggs, one quart of milk and two packages of instant breakfast in a blender. I eat a barbecue sandwich or other at lunch and a full supper. Tonight will be my chicken fried steak and gravey.

My wife sent me (made me go)to the Doctor twice in the last year and all of my blood work came up in the perfect range (no, I do not keep up with the numbers, I am a male). Doc told me to keep up with what I am doing. I am 43, 5-11 and 175# with a 31 inch waist.

I understand that if I want to turn into a couch potatoe, that I'll have to change this routine.

Kids...don't try this at home.

30 posted on 07/11/2002 8:14:32 AM PDT by Deguello
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To: Outraged At FLA
There's a terrific book on the topic of nutrition fads in the US called "New Nuts Among the Berries." Funny and interesting.

I'm on Atkins "maintenance" now after losing 20 lbs without once feeling hungry. I have to admit I do crave french fries.
31 posted on 07/11/2002 8:14:48 AM PDT by aardvark1
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To: Alberta's Child
Well, I try to exercise about one and a half hours a day give or take 15 minutes. Even if people commute, you don't mean to say they can't even do half of that a day? Even a walk after dinner for a half an hour is beneficial.

I think the biggest problem people have with the adkins diet is there doesn't seem to be any mention of exercise, I could be wrong as I have never looked into his diet as I never really need to diet, I just do so about once a year to burn off the weight I accumulate during my normaly sedintary winter lifestyle.

32 posted on 07/11/2002 8:16:29 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Outraged At FLA
I am certain of this...

My father-in-law works on a farm, spending lots of hours walking and generally in some sort of heavy physical activity 11 months out of the year.

He eats steaks/meats (the more fat the better), fried foods, you name it - he eats it - and lots of it. He can out eat me and I am way overweight.

All this and the only time he gains weight is the one month in the winter that he is not doing much physical labor.
33 posted on 07/11/2002 8:36:24 AM PDT by TheBattman
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To: marty60
My experience with the Atkins diet has also been very favorable. Cholesterol profile improved DRAMATICALLY with total cholesterol dropping to 162. More importantly, triglycerides are way down actually to almost abnormally low.
The medical profession as a whole is way behind the curve, and this article does an outstanding job of recalling the history of the Atkins phenomenon and the abuse the man has taken from the so-called experts.
Of all the low-carb diets available, I am not convinced the Atkins version is the very best, or the safest. There are several variations of the low carb diet, and it is hard to decide which among them really offers optimum health. But clearly, the lesson we should have learned from Atkins and his progeny is that excessive consumption of carbs, especially the refined time devoid of nutrients and fiber, is at the very core of many "American" degenerative health problems. In the end, we may learn that ketosis is fine for the CORRECTION of hormone imbalance (insulin/glucagon) and the return to optimum body weight and body fat, but maintenance diets, the diets we should have been on to begin with from early life, that are non-ketogenic are healthier for the long term. I suspect this may be proven some day, but maybe not. In any event, we all owe Dr. Atkins a tremendous thank you for his pioneering breakthrough in nutriontal knowledge, and his courage to face many critics and ridicule over the years. I know he's probably saved my own life.
34 posted on 07/11/2002 8:37:36 AM PDT by BuckeyeForever
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To: Outraged At FLA
That's a good point. In addition to the longer commute, an urban family generally has more "other stuff" going on simply because they can. The key for anyone is to sit down and write a list of no more than five things that are important to you. Focus on them (and make sure "exercise" is one of them), and disregard the rest.

My problem is this: Which of the five should I toss out the window in order to keep FreeRepublic on the list? LOL.

35 posted on 07/11/2002 8:43:48 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: knuthom
Even Atkins concedes there is a small portion of the population that doesn't respond to his diet with weight loss. From what I've seen in the many books on the subject (and I've been reading them for two or three decades going back to "Atkins I"), there may be as much as 25 percent of the population that doesn't benefit from the low-carb diet.
One of the fascinating theories out there now (and one roundly criticized by mainstream medicine) is the notion that blood type may be correlated with optimum diet. You might want to read any of Peter d'Adamo's interesting books (Live Right 4 Your Type, and other similar titles) or visit his website to explore that. He maintains that Type O's (the largest blood type group) do best on low-carb diets, but Type A's (only about 20-25 percent of the population, curiously) do best on vegetarian diets, which obviously are high-carb. His explanation for that has to do with lectins, substances in certain foods to which the body reacts immunologically. It's very interesting stuff, but still somewhat speculative. The fact that the medical orthodoxy poo-poos it is probably a good indication he is on to something.
36 posted on 07/11/2002 8:46:38 AM PDT by BuckeyeForever
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To: Alberta's Child
Well, the northern part of the state, known as the Skylands is a nice area. I was down on NJ for a while; Almost left. But now I am staying. Found a nice region where I can canoe, fish, hike, camp and live happily. I'm gonna buy a house here this year. The job market has got to be one of the best in the country, with so many people and being so close the NYC. Like you say, you get four seasons. It's within a day's drive from some nice tourist attractions, like Boston, or Virginia, or the Adirondacks. I am glad I have made my peace with NJ. One should take pride in where they live. Admittedly, we have some messed up politics, but I guess you can't have everything. I'll do what I can.
37 posted on 07/11/2002 8:50:24 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Alberta's Child
Well, AC, perhaps they should find one of those 5 things they can do AND walk at the same time :P

I used to do that to Limbaugh all the time.

One thing I haven't seen in any of these diets that always helped me, is lowering your sodium. Although I am not all that certain that sodium causes high blood pressure or other health maladies, I will say this: sodium makes you retain more water, period!

I don't add any salt to any of my food and try to purchase foods lower in sodium, especially things like salad dressing and condiments. A salad is no good for you if the dressing is as unhealthy as three big macs. :)

I notice that when I first lower my sodium intake, I (ahem) lose quite a bit of water and drop a couple extra pounds more than the usual water loss common in the first couple days of dieting.

Next time you eat a ham dinner, try to drink as little water as possible, and you will see it is quite hard as that salt makes you thirsty, but you won't feel as heavy after that big dinner than you normally do when that ham makes you drink a gallon of water.
38 posted on 07/11/2002 9:08:39 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Huck
I grew up in that brand-name toilet known as Hudson County. I live out in a quiet corner of the world now, nestled in between the Watchung Reservation and the Great Swamp National Wildlife Refuge. No complaints. But if I could live anywhere in this state, it would be either Long Valley or New Vernon.
39 posted on 07/11/2002 10:24:57 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Alberta's Child
I live out in a quiet corner of the world now, nestled in between the Watchung Reservation and the Great Swamp National Wildlife Refuge.

I went to elementary school in Millington. You must be out that way. Green Village? Basking Ridge? I once rented a cottage home with some buddies in New Vernon, too. That is a heck of a nice area. Harding Twp. We had wild turkeys in our back yard (and Wild Turkey in the fridge too.) Real nice if you got the $$$. Same goes for Bernardsville, Far Hills, Gladstone, Mendham. Nice but expensive.

40 posted on 07/11/2002 10:31:39 AM PDT by Huck
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To: Huck
I used to do quite a bit of work in Jersey, and Northern Jersey is quite beautiful actually. I even saw some bears there.
41 posted on 07/11/2002 10:51:56 AM PDT by Outraged At FLA
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To: Outraged At FLA
I too was raised on the "everyting in moderation philosopy". My best diet was the "weigh down workshop" that said eat when you're hungry and stop when you're satisfied. It's based on biblical principals, but works for everyone. The key is don't eat everyting on your plate if you're no longer hungry.
42 posted on 07/11/2002 6:30:20 PM PDT by Angel
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To: Outraged At FLA
43 posted on 07/12/2002 12:20:48 AM PDT by Kay Soze
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To: Kay Soze
Two words,, SUGAR BUSTERS,, don't cheat and it will make your life if you need to lose weight, reduce high blood pressure and high blood sugar and cholesterol,, the diet lets you enjoy whole grain breads and pastas as well as most fruits, vegetables and meats,, I can live with snacking on nuts, triscuts and cheese or triscuts and liverwurst,, once you know the foods to stay away from it will be habit to know all the foods you can consume,, want a peanut butter and jelly sandwich?,, get all natural peanut butter and spread it on some Arnold's 100% whole wheat bread and then hit it with some Polander 100%fruit jams,, bing you just had the best peanut butter and jelly you ever had,,you actually can taste the clean natural flavors,, and you stayed on your diet,, can you handle that?,, give it six months and the foods are worth it,, it pretty much pushes out junk foods from your diet and this causes the body to closely return to your ideal weight,,
44 posted on 07/12/2002 1:52:07 AM PDT by Lib-Lickers 2
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To: jlogajan
The Japanese have a very high Fish diet. Fish are HIGH in protein. That's the key to metabolism functioning properly.

As has been stated. carbs have NO real food value. In my bod they convert to sugar, thus my weight gain. That explains why when I started to eat carbs again my weight shot up and my choleserol went thru the roof. I know how hard it is, I love bread and potaoes. but, they are my downfall.

45 posted on 07/12/2002 7:36:03 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Outraged At FLA
I've tried the Atkins diet - and it is works fantastically - I felt great, lots of energy, and fat would melt away. Unfortunately I totally felt deprived of all the other stuff I like to eat.

I wonder if there is a plan that has a middle ground?
46 posted on 07/12/2002 7:58:50 AM PDT by NC_Libertarian
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To: Outraged At FLA
Well here are some answers for every one out there.

As the saying goes you are what you eat, but more to the point you are what you used to eat, for a good indication on what I mean all one has to do is look at the way humans as a species have adapted with the food we have eaten.

on a better look we should study the three food consumption types for mammals.

Vegitarian, carnivorous, and omnivirous (probobly spelt them wrong) any way, the vegitarian side to mammals shows that fat is really what the animal is say producing?

I know there have been no studies into it and that is a shame because I can only speak about what I know and that is evolution and hence animal interaction with environment.

But it is a better indication that fat is produced and burnt before the food is in vegitarians, looking at all vegitarian mammels you would think that this would seem fairly logical right? well it is, vegitarian animals in the wild at times cover grounds where there is no food but it isn't the food they are living off, every one knows cammels do this but do not think of other mammels, must others have a hump for this task?

Back onto the topic vegitarians be them animal or human are constantly producing higher fat quantities, if it were not for an animals high metabolism thier cholestrol would be some where off the charts, on this note please keep in mind that a humans metabolism is ten times slower then most animals, take a look at your pet dog or cat and think about why they have such short life spans then take thier pulse and take your own, there is a good indication why.

On this note a cow would produce fat arround it's muscle as a direct food supply so if there was no food for say five days there would not be much way time for the cows metabolism, I would personaly speculate that it is the mentality of the animal which controls wether the creature is about to put it's body into starving mode, so to say it shuts down parts of it's bodies uneeded priorities so as it can survive longer.

humans in relation to this is an interesting one, we do not go through perriods of having no food arround and so should one choose to be a vegitarian they would be producing fat for a while, wich is why some people find it hard to loose fat even if they were to have the same ammount of fat as others they could have slower metabolisms hence lower chalory burning or more so the fat cells are full of stored protiene.

now a look at carnivors, to say that a carnivor does more moving arround then vegitarians in the wild is quite the rash statement, buffelo and such walk virtually thier whole lives, while most carnivors are territorial.

But there are several things which split carnivors from vegitarians, usually a carnivor would hunt only when it is hungry on this note it eats fairly regularly but is not set to times, vegitarians eat at any chance they can, which is a wise move for any wild vegitarian mammal as it does not know when there may not be food.

carnivors though do not need to produce as much fat, needless to say they do produce fat but it is not some thing one which has a good food supply needs, and the reason why they do not need to produce much fat is that they gain thier high fibre, fat, calcium and any thing else you may think of from the meat fat and bones from thier prey.

Fat and muscle cells are very much alike in many ways, both can be drained of thier minerals and protiene in an effort to support the life of the animal so for this both are high in protiene, keeping this in mind it only seems logical that high intakes of meat and fat would mean less need to produce fat for storage puroposes as all the requirements are met in the initial intake.

this also means the carnivor is going to keep slim and lighter for killing other prey.

and then we come to omivors, pretty much mix the two together vegitarians and carnivors and thats about as much an omnivor as you are going to get.

but when you look at the range of species which are omnivors you dont see a large range, usually they are carnivors until they absolutely NEED to eat vegitation to survive, funny about that right?

A human being is designed with omnivorous intentions, our stomachs are designed to cator for vegitation, infact some might say it acts more like a vegitarian stomach then a carnivorous one but then again most omniverous stomachs are like that as I am willing to bet most creatures which had to eat vegitation had to do so regularly enough to have it become an evolutionary stage ^_^ only logical right?

Back to the topic, on the inside we may seem vegitarian, on the outside we are as close a predator as one can get, take a good look in the mirror and then wonder about your eye's, why are they both facing forwards and why are they close together, the answer? so you can judge distance from yourself to your prey, what does this mean? well it means your designed to be able to focus better, should humans have been designed to eat only vegitation being able to judge distance between ourselfs and the next blade of grass would be FAR less important then say having our eyes on either side of our heads (like most vegitarians, cows, horses, elephants!) so we may have a better degree of seeing which would allow us better security from predators.

Next our teeth, perfect omniverous design, evolutions greatest might I say, our hind most teeth are designed to slice AND crush along with grind as well, evolution does not get much better then that, we have canine teeth for piercing though we moved along from using our teeth as our main weapon in hunting and we have the four main front plated teeth for ripping movements on plants and such, but for meat most would prefer to use thier mauler teeth to slice away at meat ^_^ ok imagin this, here you have a really tough piece of meat in your hands (finger food mmmm ^_^) and it's hard to bite a piece off from the front of your mouth.. what do we all find ourselfs doing? twisting our heads arround and giving our maulers a try at it, thier shape is great for slicing meat while being able to crush nuts and such too.

ok enough about the teeth, what else indicates what we are?

funnily enough the very thing which sets us apart from most animals, our two legs and how we walk on them sets us apart from both vegitarians and carnivors... why? because what do we gain when we only use two legs? the ability to carry food we have gathered in our hands!!

bassicaly humans can gether nuts and such and carry them along grounds, making us more then just vegitarians because we may be eating nuts but gatherers which are as different from most animals as grass is to a meat eater.

it's only natural that this ability also spawned the abiltiy for us to use tools as we moved as well..

but back to the topic at hand, humans are capable of eating any food type we wish, but remember that when your about to eat one of these food groups look at the other habitants of the food group.. it is a good indication where it will lead you, personally I eat what I feel like when ever I want, I have my own beliefe that if your body really wants some thing or lacks some thing it will let you know by giving you cravings for it ^_^, call it a faze or what not but lately I have been wanting fruites alot.

Oh yes, and for all the die hard vegitarians out there, did you know there is no vegitarian (the idea of a vegitarian is some one who does not lie and eat eggs, fish, butter, milk, cheese or any animal product) over the age of 90 in the US?

Research found this one out and I found it VERY interesting to hear.

Robert.S AKA KuRoKo

sorry for any spelling mistakes, revenge of the lazy person.
47 posted on 01/13/2003 8:54:43 PM PST by KuRoKo
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