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Islamic heresy may hold key to pro-western reforms (my title)
http://www.geocities.com/kkhaan/sufiexposed.html ^ | NA | NA

Posted on 07/11/2002 9:53:06 AM PDT by eshu

The word Sufi is most likely to be derived from the Arabic word "soof", meaning wool. This is because of the Sufi habit of wearing woolen coats...1

Sufism is known as "Islaamic Mysticism," in which Muslims seek to find divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God 2. Mysticism is defined as the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality, and the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)3

Both the terms Sufi and Sufism and Sufi beliefs have no basis from the traditional Islaamic sources of the Qur'aan and Sunnah, a fact even admitted by themselves. Rather, Sufism is in essence a conglomerate consisting of extracts from a multitude of other religions with which Sufi's interacted.

...

Sufism as an organized movement arose among pious Muslims as a reaction against the worldliness of the early Umayyad period (AD 661-750) 4. The Sufis exploited the chaotic state of affairs that existed during the fifth and sixth centuries A.H. and invited people to follow their way...

[A Sufi leader] invited the scholars of the Romans and Greeks to meet with the Muslims and 'discuss' their respective positions. This provided the perfect breeding ground for the synthesis between Islaam and Pagan theology, to produce the Sufism of the like of Ibn Arabi.

The Mixing Pot

With the demise of the Companions and their successors, the door became open for the distortion of Islaamic Principles. The enemies of Islaam had already burrowed deep into the ranks of Muslims and... created new sects....

Sufism gained its breeding ground during this period, whereby it gain edits support from the Dynastic Rulers...

Sufi ideology and thinking flourished during the times of the likes of Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi, Jalal Ad Din Rumi, and Imam Ghazali. Their translation of Greek philosophical works into Arabic during the third Islaamic century left an indelible mark on many aspects of Sufism, resulting in Greek pantheism becoming an integral part of Sufi doctrine...

By examining the mystic doctrines of Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism and other religions, it becomes clear how closer Sufism is to these religions than to Islaam. In fact, Sufism is never characterized under "Islaam" in any system of catalogue, but rather under 'Mysticism'.

Sharda highlights these unsurprising similarities by stating that: "After the fall of Muslim orthodoxy from power at the center of India for about a century, due to the invasion of Timur, the Sufi became free from the control of the Muslim orthodoxy and consorted with Hindu saints, who influenced them to an amazing extent. The Sufi adopted Monism and wifely devotion from the Vaishnava Vedantic school and Bhakti and Yogic practices from the Vaishnava Vedantic school. By that time, the popularity of the Vedantic pantheism among the Sufis had reached its zenith."6

The following comparison demonstrates the non coincidental similarity that Sufism shares with other religions:

Concept of validity of all religions

The Sufi doctrine of all religions being acceptable before Allaah is derived from the Mystical beliefs of other religions, and not Islaam, for Allaah says: "Truly, the religion in the Sight of Allaah is Islaam..."[2: 19].

Take for example the Buddhists:

"No Buddhist who understands the Buddha's teaching thinks that other religions are wrong... All religions acknowledge that man's present state is unsatisfactory. All teach an ethics that includes love, kindness, patience, generosity and social responsibility and all accept the existence of some form of Absolute."

The Sufis also believe the same: "Allaah does not distinguish between the non-believer and the Faasiq (wrong doer) or between a believer and a Muslim. In fact they are all equal to Him... Allaah does not distinguish between a Kaffir or a hypocrite or between a saint and a Prophet."7

In al-Fusoos, Ibn Arabi leaves no doubt as to his conviction in the unity of all religions: "Beware of restricting yourself to one particular religion and disbelieving in everything else, so that great good would be missed by you, indeed you would miss attainment of knowledge of the affair in the form he is following. Rather be ready to accept all forms of belief. This is because Allaah is higher and greater than to be comprehended by one belief to the exclusion of others. Rather all are correct, and everyone who is correct receives award, and everyone who is rewarded is fortunate, and everyone who is fortunate is one with Whom He is pleased."8

Union with the Creator

Allaah Subhanahu wa Ta'aala is completely distinct from His Creation. He neither resembles His Creation, nor is He enclosed by it. Sufis however, with their deviant doctrine of Wahdat ul Wujood, believe contrary to this. Ibn Arabi, the Sufi scholar with whom which the concept of Wahdatul Wujood is rightly attributed, asserted that since Allaah's Attributes were manifested in His creation, to worship His creation is similar to worshipping Him: "So the person with complete understanding is he who sees every object of worship to be a manifestation of the truth contained therein, for which it is worshipped. Therefore they call it a god, along with its particular name, whether it is a rock, or a tree, or an animal, or a person, or a star, or an angel."9

This is how far the Sufis deviated because of their reliance on Greek and Eastern philosophy, rather than the Qur'aan and Sunnah. To them God is not Allaah Alone with whom no one else shares in His Dominion, but rather everything we see around us, and ultimately our own selves! Glory to Allaah, who Stated "There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer" [42: 11]. Looking at where Sufism derived its understanding from, we find the same ingrained beliefs:

"When you live in the wisdom home, you'll no longer find a barrier between "I" and "you," "this" and "that," "inside" and "outside;" you'll have come, finally, to your true home, the state of non-duality."10

"Finally, the experience of realization matures sufficiently that the [spiritual aspirant] may rightly utter the startling assertion, 'Iam Shiva' (a Hindu deity)".11

"When I am in that darkness I do not remember anything about anything human, or the God-man.. I see all and I see nothing. As what I have spoken of withdraws and stays with me, I see the God-man.. and he sometimes says to me: 'You are I and I am you'".12

Corruption of Tawheed in Allaah's Attributes

Sufis totally deny all of Allaah's Attributes, such as His Face, His Hands, His Istawaa etc., using metaphorical meanings to explain His Attributes. Although the Companions and Tabi'een believed in them without any resemblance to His creation, the Sufi's deem His Attributes to be apart of His creation.

Ibn Arabi went as far as to say that he saw Allaah during one of his ecstatic trances, in the shape of a young blond boy sitting on a Throne! (see Bezels of Wisdom, London 1980). Other Sufi Gnostics followed suitin Ibn Arabi's trail: "In the writings of Ibn al-Arabi and Ibn al-Farid, eternal beauty is symbolized through female beauty; in Indo-Muslim popular mystical songs the soul is the loving wife, God the longed for husband."13

Incorporation of Music in Rituals

Music of all forms is forbidden by the majority of scholars, and remains attached to forbidden practices such as drinking, fornication and parties. However, after the Muslim conquest of the Deccan under Malik Kafur (c.1310), a large number of Hindu musicians were taken with the royal armies and settled in the North. The acceptance of the Sufi doctrines, in which music was an accepted means to the realization of God, enabled Muslim rulers and noblemen to extend their patronage to this art.14 At the courts of the Mughal emperors Akbar, Jahangir, and Shah Jahan, music flourished on a grand scale, and Sufi Dervishes used music as a means to enter ecstatic trances.

Allaah's Messengersaid in a lengthy hadeeth concerning the appearance of vile acts, "...when singing girls and stringed instruments make their appearance, wines are drunk, and the last members of this people curse the first ones, look at that time for a violent wind, an earthquake, being swallowed up by the earth, metamorphosis, pelting rain, and signs following one another like bits of a necklace falling one after the other when its string is cut." [Tirmidhi ].

The deception of Sufism is brought to full light by looking at the lives of their esteemed leaders, the Sheikhs of whom which they place full trust in heir knowledge and obey their every command, and by contrasting the Orthodox Islaamic teachings against the Sufi alternative.

Sufi Sheikhs: Role Models or Deviants?

Bayazid Tayfur al-Bistami

Bayazid is considered to be "of the six bright stars in the firmament of the Prophet"15, and a link in the Golden Chain of the Naqshibandi Tariqah. Yet his life reeks of Shirin all aspects.

Bayazid al-Bistami was the first one to spread the reality of Annihilation (Fana'), whereby the Mystic becomes fully absorbed to the point of becoming unaware of himself or the objects around him. Every existing thing seems to vanish, and he feels free of every barrier that could stand in the way of his viewing the Remembered One. In one of these states, Bayazid cried out: "Praise to Me, for My greatest Glory!"

Yet this concept is to be found nowhere in the Qur'aan, nor Sunnah, nor in the behavior in the Salaf us Saalih.

Bistami's belief in the Unity of all religions became apparent when asked the question: "How does Islaam view other religions?" His reply was "All are vehicles and a path to God's Divine Presence. "Was this the Message of Tawheed which the Prophetpracticed and was followed by the Sahaabah? He attributed the believers to be the same as the disbelievers themselves, who Allaah describes as being worse than cattle (Surah 7, verse 179) and dogs; the same disbelievers who the Prophetstated he had been commanded to fight till they testified that there was no deity but Allaah.

The whole life of Bayazid is rife with such contradiction to Eeman. From a young age, he left his mother stating to her that he could not serve Allaah and his mother at the same time.16 When walking through the streets, he once called out "I am God; why do you not worship me?" He spent his time sitting with his head resting between his knees, one of his companions stating he did so for thirty years. But strangest of all was his obedience to a dog he once came across. The dog had apparently become upset at Bayazid's attempt to avoid him, to which the dog spoke to him and scolded him. So Bayazid pleaded "O dog, you are so enlightened, live with me for some time."17

Ibn Arabi

During the late 12th and early 13th centuries, under the influence of speculative mysticism, Ibn al-Arabi produced a system that created a complete chasm between the law and Sufism. In societies, such as Islaamic India, that had a strong pre-Islaamic heritage of mysticism, this chasm became much wider.18

Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi holds perhaps the highest position amongst all Sufi Schools, and was pivotal in the permanent split between Islaam and Sufism. He claimed to have received direct orders from the Prophet himself, including a book of completely new hadeeth never seen or heard of before.

Prior to his receiving 'revelation', Ibn Arabi was well known to attend nightly parties in Seville. During one of these nights, he heard a voice (his drunk inner self?) calling to him, "O Muhammad, it was not for this that you were created". He fled in fear to a cemetery, where he claims to have met, and received instruction from, Jesus, Moses and Muhammad, peace be upon them all. From his books, innumerable forged sayings attributed to the Prophethave been used, to the extent that countless of Muslims consider these to be real.

The following are quotes from Ibn Arabi:

"The man of wisdom will never allow himself to be caught up in anyone form or belief, because he is wise unto himself".19

"All that is left to us by tradition (Hadeeth) is mere words. It is up to us to find out what they mean"20. (This reflects his alliance with Baatini (inner) meanings and interpretations)

"He (Ibn Rushd) thanked God that in his own time he had seen someone (Ibn Arabi) who had entered into the retreat ignorant and had come out like this (knowledge of inner meanings)- without study, discussion, investigation or reading"21

Junaid

Junaid was the fourth head of the Safavid order who sought to transform the spiritual strength of the order into political power. What may be unknown to his followers however was his policies of military adventurism combined with Shi'a and Sufi piety.22 His son, Haydar, himself established the Safavid dynasty and the Twelver Shi'a Islaam in Iran came under his grandson, Isma'il I.

He was said to have blown a fatal breath at his slave-girl, to which he argued that she was ruining his forty years of spiritual practices.23

This so-called 'Saint', a supposed friend of Allaah, made the following remarks:

"I saw a thief who was being gibbeted. I bowed to him... for being true to the profession he followed."

"He who fears Allaah never smiles".

"One moments forgetfulness of the Lord ruins a thousands years worship".

....

Distortion of the concepts of Dhikr, hadeeth, Qur'aan

Since the Qur'aan and Saheeh Hadeeth cannot be changed, the Sufi's have reverted to Ta'weel, a method of changing the apparent meaning of the verse or hadeeth to have a hidden one. This provided them with sufficient lee-way to support any concept they desired, by simply stating that the verse/hadith had an inner meaning which only the Sheikh himself could know.

In the Bezels of Wisdom, Ibn Arabi presents certain aspects of what he terms "Divine Wisdom," as he conceives it. But Ibn al-Arabi interprets the relevant verses of Surat Noah in the most outrageous fashion, since he suggests meanings diametrically opposed to those accepted by all Muslim scholars. He interprets the "wrong doer," "infidels," and "sinners" in Surat Noah as 'saints and Gnostics' drowning and burning not in the torment of Hell, but rather in the flames and water of knowledge of God. Ibn Arabi regarded the idols worshipped by Noah's people as divine deities. Allaah condemned their deed saying: "And they (Noah's people) said, 'Do not abandon your gods, neither Wad, Suwa', Yaghooth, Ya'ooq norNasr'. " [71: 23]

On which Ibn Arabi commented:

"If they (Noah's people) had abandoned them, they would have become ignorant of the Reality ... for in every object of worship there is a reflection of Reality, whether it be recognized or not."

...

Innovation

The Sufis are to be found indulging in and spending an enormous amount of resources defending innovated practices, declaring them to be "good innovations." These include celebrating the death of the Prophet(a practice adopted from the reign of Fatamids, who began this innovation in order to seek the pleasure of the masses), reading Qur'aan over the dead and seeking blessings form them, and the building of extravagant mosques (even though our Prophetforbade this. Anas reports that the Messenger of Allaah said: "The Hour will not come to pass until the people compete with each other in (building) the mosques." [Ahmad, Abu Dawud, anNasa'i, Ibn Majah] ).

Why they still survive

Emotional attachment

The Sufi's have become such an integral part of the lives of so many Muslims that Muslims are finding it difficult to accept that the Sufi path is wrong, and accuse anyone who pinpoints the errors of Sufism as an extremist or a follower of some 'deviant' sect.

Sufism calls to human emotions rather than intellect and Islaamic evidence .For example, poetry and music were the most popular form during the past hundreds of years, whereby "Sufi ideas permeated the hearts of all those who hearkened to poetry."27 Today, Sufism is followed by masses of people who desire to leave behind the complexities of this world, instead of building the ability to challenge it. Sufism provides the perfect escape, where its followers can meditate instead of thinking about the other Muslims who are suffering, let alone help them.

Similarity with pagan beliefs

Sufism is so similar to other religions, and as we noted earlier very tolerant of them, that a change to Sufism does not involve a complete change of life, as Islaam requires. So Buddhists, Sikhs, Taoists and mystic Jews and Christians looking for an easy alternative find solace in Sufism which perhaps only adds another dimension to their previous way of life, rather than uprooting it and starting afresh

Simplicity

Ibnul-Jawzee says in Talbees Iblees: "Sufism is a way whose beginning was complete avoidance of the affairs of worldly life, then those who attached themselves to it became lax in allowing singing and dancing. Therefore the seekers of the hereafter from the common people became attracted to them due to the avoidance of the worldly life which they manifested, and the seekers after this world were also attracted to them due to the life of ease and frivolity which they were seen to live."

Sufism offers its followers a life carefree from fighting (Jihad), politics, the initiative to seek knowledge and teach it, the work of Da'wah, and allows a person to indulge in worldly activities such as music, magic, and other prohibited acts.

The leader of the Naqshibandi Tareeqa in America, was quoted in the media as saying the following: "You have to be both material and spiritual. Sufis can give people joy in their spiritual life. Well, Madonna is giving people a kind of joy in their material life... You cannot say she is wrong. Sufis don't object and criticize - they are accepting everything. That's why, when my children are looking at Madonna on MTV, I say, 'Let me come and look also!'"

Support from the governments

Any group which manages to gain the support of an anti-Islaamic Government must be suspicious. During the reign of the tyrant Mustafa Kemal, under whose leadership thousands of scholars were executed and Islaamic practices banned, special permission was granted by the Turkish government in 1954 allowing the Mawlawi dervishes of Konya to perform their ritual dances In fact, they have become a regular attraction nowadays, performing around the world along with their Turkish Mystical Music State Ensemble. 28

The Sheikh of the Naqshibandi's of America has greeted and received praises from the President of America Bill Clinton himself. And why shouldn't he, since the 'Islaam' he portrays is one of pacifism and unity with the Kuffar.

Twisting of evidence

Since the Qur'aan and Hadeeth are readily available, and cannot be changed, the Sufis have resorted to another trick used by other Mystics: Ta'weel, or changing the apparent meaning of a verse or hadeeth to a secret inner one which only a certified Sheikh could explain!

They also rely on providing the mass with forged hadeeth, such as the one stating the beseeching of Adam (a.s) in the name of Muhammad when he sinned; the stories of Khidr; the rising of the Prophet from his grave so a person could kiss his hand and so on.

Because of the lack of knowledge the general mass possess on the knowledge of Hadeeth and Aqeedah, they believe what they are told, and pass on the stories to other generations, becoming distorted even more along the way.

Another smart tactic is to attribute forged sayings in support of the Sufi's from the righteous scholars. For example, Ibn Taymiyyah is attributed to have been a member of the Qadiri order and had been initiated, and spoken great words on Bistami and his likes. Yet Ibn Taymiyyah spent the majority of his life fighting against the teachings of Sufism, was imprisoned because of them, and bluntly stated "...Ibn Arabi who wrote "Al-Fousous," and other slandering atheists such as Ibn Sab'een and his like. They even witness that they are simultaneously the worshipers and the ones being worshiped."

The Damage to the Ummah

...The Sufi's have left a lasting impression on the image of Islaam, portraying it as one of peace and apolitical, and anyone who contravenes this is an impostor and considered an extremist. By relying on forged hadeeth such as the 'bigger Jihad is Jihad'ul Nafs (i.e. struggle against the self)' and its like, Muslims have been made to believe that work and family is the greatest Jihad, rather than establishing Allaah's religion on Earth though the use of the sword.

The Sufi influence undoubtedly contributed greatly to the decline of the Ottoman Empire. The pacifist views they spread, the lack of Shari'ah knowledge, and their befriending of the disbelievers, made sure that no one would oppose the vast changes being made to the Ottoman Laws. By 1880, the Tanzimat period was in full force, where Shari'ah was replaced by European Laws (except in limited circumstances such as in Hadd punishments), yet little opposition was heard29. Whilst the masses were busy in the construction of extravagant mosques and spinning around in circles, the Ottoman Empire was overtaken by Masons and eventually torn to parts.

Conclusion

Sufism was doomed to destruction from when it first emerged, because of its deviation from the teachings of the Qur'aan and Sunnah. The small excess, the little innovation, led to the snowball effect, such that it emerged as a movement for well-meant increased Ibaadah and Zuhd, to Kufrand Innovation.

In truth, Islaam is sufficient for us, and it is only Shaytaan who wishes to turn us away from our religion, to make us exceed the limits, and fall into his trap. The only sure way to avoid this is to grasp tightly onto what was left to us by our beloved Prophet, the Qur'aan and Sunnah, as understood and believed and acted upon by the best people to have lived: the Salaf us Saalih, the Companions and those who followed their footsteps.

Read More: Are the Sufi shaykhs really in contact with Allaah? Path of Misguidance Sufism(part 1) Path of Misguidance Sufism(part 2) Path of Misguidance Sufism(part 3) Reality of Sufism

1 Al Fataawa 11/7 2 Encyclopedia Britannica 3 Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 4 Encyclopedia Britannica 5 The Fundamentals of Tawheed, Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips 6 S. R. Sharda, Sufi Thought 7 The Naqshbandi Way, pp 12,16 8 Ibn Arabi, al-Fusoos, p.191 9 Hadhihi Hiyas-Soofiyah, p.38 10 The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, p.77 11 The Triadic Heart of Shiva, pp 183-4 12 Angela of Foligno: Complete Works, pp 181-2 13 Encyclopedia Britannica 14 ibid. 15 Naqshibandi Way 16 Memoirs of the Saints, translated by Dr. Bankley Behari 17 ibid. 18 Encyclopedia Britannica 19 An unpublished poem from Ibn Arabi's 'Diwan', translated by Dr Austin 20 Stephen Hirtenstein's paper Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi: The Treasure of Compassion 21 Sufis of Andalusia, transl. by R. W. J. Austin, p.23 22 Encyclopedia Britannica 23 Memoirs of the Saints, p.108 24 ibid. 25 Naqshibandi Way 26 Sheikhul Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmoo' al Fatawaah 27 Encyclopedia Britannica 28 They recently came to perform in Australia, charging $30 per head. Only the elite went to watch this 90 minute theatrical display. 29 The Islaamic World, New Jersey 1991 By Br. Yusuf Hijazi


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: islam; mulsims; reform; sufi; sufism; west
There was an article posted recently about Steven Schwartz, an anti-Islamist columnist for the weekly standard who recently made public the fact that he is actually a convert to sufism, the mystical branch of Islam.

Anyway, there were posts to the thread claiming that Sufism is "evil" and "weird" - an opinion also shared by Islamic hardliners! But Why?

Well, for one thing, sufism is very popular with westerners, much like zen or yoga. For another, pacifism is a key sufi tenet - the sufis see "jihad" purely in terms of mystical struggle with one's own ego. They Sufis are also not fundamentalists, ie., they allegorize the Koran in psychological terms instead of talking it literally. The sufis also preach that all religions are valid!!! For this reason they are denounced as heretics by the clerics, despire having a broad level of popular support in many countries.

Now, I have asked "black muslims" in the US what they think about sufism and none of them (that I have spoken to) have even heard of it. That is because (IMHO) the sufi ideals are pretty much the opposite of what Farrakhan wants to inculcate in his followers. But despite this, I believe that sufism may present the best possibility for Islam to shake off the chain of medieval fundamentalism and re-enter the human race.

Well, my 2 cents - read the article and let me know what you think.

I should add that I am not a sufi myself, but I do find it quite fascinating

1 posted on 07/11/2002 9:53:06 AM PDT by eshu
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To: eshu
The word Sufi is most likely to be derived from the Arabic word "soof", meaning wool. This is because of the Sufi habit of wearing woolen coats...1

Anyone who wears a woolen coat in desert climes is obviously two humps short of a whole camel.

2 posted on 07/11/2002 9:56:51 AM PDT by Maceman
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To: Maceman
"...to find divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God

"...the experience of mystical union or direct communion with ultimate reality, and the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight)"

This is exactly what experience has taught me and what I believe.

If Muslims--or anyone else for that matter--find God, in this manner or otherwise, they will know that Islamic fundamentalism and fanaticism, the Sharia, and the brutal aspects of Islam are ungodly and that the Koran is no more the divine word of God than is anything else. The cosmos is God's holy scripture. The truth is there for everyone to find.

3 posted on 07/11/2002 10:37:16 AM PDT by Savage Beast
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To: eshu
Sufism seems one of the best hopes for the future of islam.
However, the wahhabis hate; sufis in afghanistan were severely persecuted by the taliban.

One reason, as this article, makes clear, is their acknowledgement and acceptance of a preislamic past, something rather unique. And their appreciation of music and dancing makes them heretical to the conventional islamic tenets.

It is diametrically opposed to arabislamism and should be encouraged by the west and those seeking a alternative to the jihadis.
4 posted on 07/11/2002 10:42:26 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: Maceman
Deserts can get very cold.
5 posted on 07/11/2002 10:51:42 AM PDT by Britton J Wingfield
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To: Maceman
"Anyone who wears a woolen coat in desert climes is obviously two humps short of a whole camel."

Is that a Bactrian or Thracian camel? What's the airspeed of an African swallow carrying a coconut?;^)

6 posted on 07/11/2002 10:58:19 AM PDT by Kermit
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To: swarthyguy; philosofy123
I found this part in particular quite interesting:

"No Buddhist who understands the Buddha's teaching thinks that other religions are wrong... All religions acknowledge that man's present state is unsatisfactory. All teach an ethics that includes love, kindness, patience, generosity and social responsibility and all accept the existence of some form of Absolute."

The Sufis also believe the same: "Allaah does not distinguish between the non-believer and the Faasiq (wrong doer) or between a believer and a Muslim. In fact they are all equal to Him... Allaah does not distinguish between a Kaffir or a hypocrite or between a saint and a Prophet."

and this:

...The Sufi's have left a lasting impression on the image of Islaam, portraying it as one of peace and apolitical, and anyone who contravenes this is an impostor and considered an extremist. By relying on forged hadeeth such as the 'bigger Jihad is Jihad'ul Nafs (i.e. struggle against the self)' and its like, Muslims have been made to believe that work and family is the greatest Jihad, rather than establishing Allaah's religion on Earth though the use of the sword.

7 posted on 07/11/2002 11:55:19 AM PDT by eshu
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To: eshu
Islam is based on the Koran, and Mohamed. Both are sources of hate, violence and intolerance. Any variation on Islam that does not renounce both the Koran, and Mohamed is just another way to dance around the real problem.

Sufis, Bahai, Sunni, Shiites, Alawis,....All the same S##t

8 posted on 07/11/2002 12:21:43 PM PDT by philosofy123
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To: philosofy123
Your response makes it obvious that you didn't even bother to read the post you are pretending to respond to.

Why is your handle "philosofy123" anyway?

Do you even know what "philosofy" is?

9 posted on 07/11/2002 12:50:32 PM PDT by eshu
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To: eshu
I believe Indonesia was largely converted to Islam by Sufi mystics. This is a major reason why that largest of Muslim countries stands apart from most of the others. Could a Sufi revival do to Islam what the Protestant reformation did to Christianity?
10 posted on 07/11/2002 12:57:47 PM PDT by moni kerr
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