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To: american colleen
From Cardinal Kasper:

Liturgical good news -- from the Vatican!

Despite all the bad news from the Vatican's liturgy office, there's good news down the hall. Cardinal Walter Kasper's Christian Unity office, in consultation with Ratzinger's doctrinal commission and another on Eastern Churches, recently published guidelines that allow the Chaldean Church, a church in union with Rome, to pray the Eucharistic Prayer of the Assyrian Church (not in union with Rome). This prayer does not contain the traditional narrative of the institution of the eucharist. Thus Rome has recognized that the Eucharistic Prayer can be enacted, bread and wine becoming for us the body and blood of Christ as we give God thanks, without the "words of consecration." The whole prayer is consecratory. Liturgy scholar Gabe Huck told ChurchWatch, "This is important because it tells us we must see this prayer as a whole, done by presider proclaiming and assembly acclaiming, from 'Lift up your hearts!' to the great Amen."

From http://www.cta-usa.org/watch02-02/newsbriefs.html

Kasper's article, beneath its complicated details, is animated by the desire to secure greater "pastoral flexibility" in areas where a gap seems to be widening between the Church's official positions and the actual practices of many local churches. It is a fact that the Church's official positions tend to be implemented with increasing reluctance, if not simply ignored, in many local churches throughout the world, particularly in countries such as the U.S., Canada, Australia, Japan, and the nations of western Europe. Areas of disagreement and contention with the Vatican include, according to Kasper, "ethical issues, sacramental discipline and ecumenical practices." This likely translates into the Church's widely controverted and ignored prohibitions against homosexual acts, premarital cohabitation, and "remarriage" outside the Church — and her ban prohibiting those involved in these things, or those whose affiliation is non-Catholic, from receiving Holy Communion. There is also the matter of contraception. It is widely known that there are bishops and priests who favor an open communion policy, and that few would turn away anyone approaching the altar, whatever his sexual practice, marital status, or church affiliation. Cardinal Martini of Milan has been reported as saying, for instance, that the Church has no business getting involved in the personal morals of individual Catholics. As we shall see, Kasper seems inclined to agree with this perspective.

From http://www.newoxfordreview.org/apr02/philipblosser.html

18 posted on 07/16/2002 5:04:54 AM PDT by narses
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To: narses; Salvation
Cardinal Martini of Milan has been reported as saying, for instance, that the Church has no business getting involved in the personal morals of individual Catholics. As we shall see, Kasper seems inclined to agree with this perspective,

Uh, something about that doesn't seem quite right. I am not saying the Church should supervise the personal lives of its members to the extent that, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses do but... Take a recent example. The decision by Cardinal Egan not to grant a funeral mass for John Gotti. A decision not to make the Church look ridiculous by honoring an unrepentant murderer.

But on this point of non-Christians receiving Divine Grace, I would certainly include Buddha in that category.

20 posted on 07/16/2002 5:22:01 AM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: narses
Clearly, this decision has unsettled you. You repeatedly reference it and post commentary about it. Is it your desire to unsettle others and tempt others to doubt the competency of Divinely-constituted authority to take correct decisions?
You really have to learn to trust in the Church that Jesus established. I notice that some of the commentary was lifted from Call to Action. Do you consider their "understanding" of the matter to be superior to the commentary of the legitimate, competent authority, whose commentary accompanied the decision that has so unsettled you?
Relax, the Catholic Church has not only not failed, it is incapable of doing so...
Pax tecum
21 posted on 07/16/2002 5:42:20 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: narses
" Cardinal Martini of Milan has been reported as saying, for instance, that the Church has no business getting involved in the personal morals of individual Catholics."

And, as we know, "reporting" is impecccable....
22 posted on 07/16/2002 5:45:40 AM PDT by Catholicguy
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To: narses
Here is the link you provided in post #18. An eye opener, IMO. "Clash of the Titans"

"The Kasper-Ratzinger Debate & The State of the Church"

23 posted on 07/16/2002 6:16:48 AM PDT by american colleen
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To: narses
Anything that is good news to Cardinal Kasper is bad news to me.

Now he's in charge of the Vatican's False OEcumenism movement, and one of his first acts is to remove the Words of Consecration from the liturgy.

52 posted on 07/16/2002 2:42:34 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: narses
Kaspar is a socialist and Martini is a Jesuit. Piss is piss, even if it comes in wine bottles.
56 posted on 07/16/2002 4:29:32 PM PDT by RobbyS
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