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To: nuda_veritas
Not too surprising. It was all here in a big mass, then God separated the earth and water from the skies and stars and then created life. Not surprising that the raw materials to the universe are still in the universe. But let the scientists create a galaxy, life, planets,etc. First, let them make their own dirt from scratch!
3 posted on 07/18/2002 10:37:58 AM PDT by buffyt
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To: buffyt
There is need for you to be defensive. Scientists cannot discover what God has not created.
5 posted on 07/18/2002 10:42:17 AM PDT by nuda_veritas
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To: buffyt
I came up with a way to explain faith to scientific types.

Definitions of Entropy:

Cambridge International Dictionary of English: the amount of order or lack of order in a system

Online Plain Text English Dictionary: A certain property of a body, expressed as a measurable quantity, such that when there is no communication of heat the quantity remains constant, but when heat enters or leaves the body the quantity increases or diminishes.

WordNet Vocabulary Helper (NotreDame): 1. (3) entropy -- ((thermodynamics) a measure of the amount of energy in a system that is available for doing work; entropy increases as matter and energy in the universe degrade to an ultimate state of inert uniformity)
2. information, selective information, entropy -- ((communication theory) a numerical measure of the uncertainty of an outcome; ``the signal contained thousands of bits of information'' )

AllWords.com: 1. A certain property of a body, expressed as a measurable quantity, such that when there is no communication of heat the quantity remains constant, but when heat enters or leaves the body the quantity increases or diminishes.

Dictionary.com: 1. For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.
2. A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
3. A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
4. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
5. Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.

LookWAYup: A measure of the amount of energy in a system that is available for doing work; entropy increases as matter and energy in the universe degrade to an ultimate state of inert uniformity.

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary: 1. A measure of the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is also usually considered to be a measure of the system's disorder and that is a property of the system's state and is related to it in such a manner that a reversible change in heat in the system produces a change in the measure which varies directly with the heat change and inversely with the absolute temperature at which the change takes place; broadly : the degree of disorder or uncertainty in a system
2. a : the degradation of the matter and energy in the universe to an ultimate state of inert uniformity b : a process of degradation or running down or a trend to disorder

American Heritage® Dictionary: 1. For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.
2. A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
3. A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
4. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.
5. Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.

WordSmyth.net: 1. in thermodynamics, a mathematical expression of the state of randomness or energy loss in any system.
2. the natural and irreversible tendency toward randomness and disorder in any system without an external source of energy.
3. loosely, decline or degeneration.

Ultra Lingua: A measure of the amount of energy in a system that is available for doing work; entropy increases as matter and energy in the universe degrade to an ultimate state of inert uniformity.
2. Entropy calculated from the probability that a state could be reached by chance alone.

Webster's Revised Unabridged, 1913 Edition : A certain property of a body, expressed as a measurable quantity, such that when there is no communication of heat the quantity remains constant, but when heat enters or leaves the body the quantity increases or diminishes.

Encyclopedia.com: quantity specifying the amount of disorder or randomness in a system bearing energyor information.

Rhymezone: A measure of the amount of energy in a system that is available for doing work; entropy increases as matter and energy in the universe degrade to an ultimate state of inert uniformity

ArtLex Lexicon of Visual Art Terminology: The tendency of all matter and energy in the universe-- including all systems, societies, etc.-- to change toward a state of disorder or randomness.

WORDS OF ART: In certain sociological circles, for example, the original definition of entropy as the degree to which energy in a system is available to do work becomes a description of how social progress slows and finally stops because social change uses up energy which cannot then be retrieved for reuse in further change.

Extragalactic Astronomy: 1. a thermodynamic property of a macroscopic body which corresponds intuitively to the degree of disorder.
2. A measure of the amount of unavailable heat in a system; or a measure of the amount of disorder in a system.
3. A quantitative measure of the degree of disorder of a physical system. Highly disordered systems have a large entropy; highly ordered systems have low entropy. One of the laws of physics, the second law of thermodynamics, says that the entropy of any isolated physical system can only increase in time.
4. A thermodynamic measure of the degree of order in a system. Also used as a measure of information content.
5. A measure of the amount of disorder in a system.

Definitions of God:

Cambridge International Dictionary of English: A spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshipped for doing so, or a representation of the being

Webster's 1828 Dictionary: The Supreme Being; Jehovah; the eternal and infinite spirit, the creator,and the sovereign of the universe.

WordNet Vocabulary Helper (NotreDame): 1. God, Supreme Being -- (the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions)
2. Deity, divinity, god, immortal -- (any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force)

1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica: Applied to all those superhuman beings of the heathen mythologies who exercise power over nature and man and are often identified with some particular sphere of activity; and also to the visible material objects, whether an image of the supernatural being or a tree, pillar, &c. used as a symbol, an idol.

AllWords.com: 1. In religions othr than in the Christian and other monotheistic religions: a superhuman male being with power over nature and humanity; a male object of worship.
2. In the Christian and other monotheistic religions: the unique supreme being, creator and ruler of the universe.

Dictionary.com: 1a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
1b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.

Webster: 1. capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a. the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe
b. Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2. A being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

American Heritage® Dictionary: 1. a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.

Encyclopedia.com: The general conception of God may be said to be that of an infinite being (often a personality but not necessarily anthropomorphic) who is supremely good, who created the world, who knows all and can do all, who is transcendent over and immanent in the world, and who loves humanity.
There are several famous arguments for the existence of God. The argument from the First Cause maintains that since in the world every effect has its cause behind it (and every actuality its potentiality), the first effect (and first actuality) in the world must have had its cause (and potentiality), which was in itself both cause and effect (and potentiality and actuality), i.e., God. The cosmological argument maintains that since the world, and all that is in it, seems to have no necessary or absolute (nonrelative) existence, an independent existence (God) must be implied for the world as the explanation of its relations.
The teleological argument maintains that, since from a comprehensive view of nature and the world everything seems to exist according to a certain great plan, a planner (God) must be postulated. The ontological argument maintains that since the human conception of God is the highest conception humanly possible and since the highest conception humanly possible must have existence as one attribute, God must exist. Immanuel Kant believed that he refuted these arguments by showing that existence is no part of the content of an idea. This principle has become very important in contemporary philosophy, particularly in existentialism. The consensus among theologians is that the existence of God must in some way be accepted on faith.

Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy: Plato viewed as the highest of all things the good that was above all being and all knowledge, identified it with the divine nous, and attempted to raise the human spirit into the realm of ideas, into a likeness with the Godhead; which taught men to rise to the highest by a process of abstraction disregarding particulars and grasping at universals, and conceived the good of which it spoke not in a strictly ethical sense, but as, after all, the most utterly abstract and indefinable, entirely eluding all attempts at positive description.

Easton Bible: The arguments generally adduced by theologians in proof of the being of God are:
(1.) The a priori argument, which is the testimony afforded by reason.
(2.) The a posteriori argument, by which we proceed logically from the facts of experience to causes. These arguments are,
(a) The cosmological, by which it is proved that there must be a First Cause of all things, for every effect must have a cause.
(b) The teleological, or the argument from design. We see everywhere the operations of an intelligent Cause in nature.
(c) The moral argument, called also the anthropological argument, based on the moral consciousness and the history of mankind, which exhibits a moral order and purpose which can only be explained on the supposition of the existence of God.

Catholic Encyclopedia: Nature and Attributes of God - In this article, we proceed by deductive analysis to examine the nature and attributes of God to the extent required by our limited philosophical scope. We will treat accordingly of the infinity, unity, and simplicity of God, adding some remarks on Divine personality.
Relation of God to the Universe - The world is essentially dependent on God, and this dependence implies (1) that God is the Creator of the world -- the producer of its whole substance; and (2) that its continuance in being at every moment is due to His sustaining power.

Irivng Hexham's Concise Dictionary of Religion: Traditionally, the Abramic religions understood God as the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE and everything that exists.
CHINESE and JAPANESE religions recognized an impersonal force behind the universe but never developed a concept of God similar to the Abramic one.
BUDDHISM is unique in recognizing the existence of Gods in the affairs of daily life but in declaring in no uncertain terms that as a religion or practice, Buddhism has nothing to do with God.

New Age Terminology: A being who has "many faces." He (it) is considered a radically immanent being who is often referred to as a "universal consciousness," "universal life," or "universal energy." The New Age god is more or less an impersonal force that pervades the universe.

Free On Line Dictionary Of Philosophy: Omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and perfectly benevolent creator of the universe. Conceived of as transcending the created universe (as in the Christian tradition) God is thought to exist prior to and beyond the universe which he created from nothing or ex nihilo. Conceived of as immanent (as on pantheistic and Stoic conceptions) God is in the universe (as its guiding spirit or logos) and coextensive with it, not beyond it or prior to it.

The antithesis of Entropy must therefore be God. Without order as a frame of reference, there cannot be chaos.

And by corollary the physical and metaphysical interact in a continuum of interdependency. Since the decay of order into chaos is a trend, not an absolute, there must therefore be an unknown influence causing this aboration of order in a world of decay.

There are witnessed (al beit non-repeatable) evidence of this unknown influence causing order in the face of chaos (i.e. miracles) as well as well known exceptions to fundamental physical laws, that are easily explainable in the realm of faith.

But since faith (God) can't by definition be proved, it is prudent to just lay out the evidence and the hypothesis and let them go nuts trying to disprove it. ;)

17 posted on 07/18/2002 1:24:37 PM PDT by anymouse
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