Female Combatants, Islam and the Multicultural-Feminist Divide

Gunrunner2

[Don Myers]

"Just prior to lift-off Major Cornum runs to the chopper, abandoning her post in a combat environment, tells the combat medics she’s a doctor and can “help this guy,” and lifts off, thereby leaving her battalion without a flight surgeon. "

I bet her comrades around her didn't cheer her decision.

"So, Cornum, forced to tell the truth this time, admits in congressional testimony she was raped and it was no big deal, just another aspect of captivity.) "

I guess that we will just have to accept her word that getting raped is no big deal to her.

[Kozak]

Question. Does anyone know if the Saudi's allow Americans of the Jewish faith to defend their little theocracy?

[Gunrunner2]

>>Men are raped and sexually tortured as POW's as well. <<

And. . .your proof is?

In the Gulf War there is only one report of rape, British (John Peters, nice guy, chatted with him a few times).
There are no reports, classified or otherwise, that indicate rape.

If by sexual abuse you mean applying electrical shock to the private areas, that indeed happen.

If you are alleging rape happens to the extent that women get raped, you are simply not correct. 100% of women captured in the Gulf War were raped. Are you suggesting this is true for the men as well? Again, classified reports indicate no such thing. Not even close. Not even far. Not even.

Now, however, if you are referring to worldwide situations from places like the Sudan, perhaps you are right. But you are not correct when it comes to Americans.

The issue of rape is emotional and can be a strong weapon against the American male POW.

[Lorianne]

Are you asserting that male American POW's are immune to rape or sexual torture?

Male-male rape during war is a historical fact and has been for eons. So is castaration of male prisoners of war. Both of these things happened in the Balkans and in Viet Nam. I don't know the prevalence of torture vs. rape but it can happen to either sex as a POW. Male-male rape is especially prevalent as a form of retribution in Moslem countries. As is castration. Our own "allies" the so-called Northern Alliance in Afghanistan castrated Taliban POW's once they got the upper hand (in addition to raping and plunding the general population as well) until we reigned them in somewhat.

Regarding the Gulf War, how do you know what is not present in classified documents? There were not very many American POW's in the Gulf War so I doubt our government would violate their privacy by detailing any rape, torture or mistreatment, particularly if they had be sexually assualted. Why would they publicize this?

And in general male victims of rape are much more reluctant to talk about it than female victims. In the Balkans for example there were numerous accounts of male-male rape of prisoners (in addition to castration and other horrors) however no male rape victims have come forward to name their accusors at the War Crimes Tribunal. Most likely because most of them are dead.

[Lorianne]

"The rape of males was more widely recognized in ancient times. Raping defeated males was considered the special right of the victorious soldier in some societies, and was a signal of the totality of the defeat. There was a widespread belief that a male who was sexually penetrated, even if it was by forced sexual assault, thus "lost his manhood," and could no longer be a warrior or ruler. In the twentieth century, the best-known instance of this kind of humiliation occurred when the Englishman T.E. Lawrence ("Lawrence of Arabia") was captured by the Turks, who were well known for this custom, during World War I. The subsequent disruption of Lawrence's life, while a surprise to his contemporaries, can now be recognized as a typical consequence of male Rape Trauma Syndrome. Gang rape of a male was considered an ultimate form of punishment, and as such was known to the Romans, as punishment for adultery, and to the Persians and Iranians, as punishment for violation of the sanctity of the harem (Donaldson, 1990)."

http://www.callrape.com/malerape.html

"As we saw on the battlefields of Kosovo - and previously Bosnia – the jingoistic, hysterical patriotism of wartime can turn routine homophobia into something even more sinister and evil. The Balkan bloodbath was no exception. Home-sadism became a weapon of war. While the rape of women was widely reported in the press, the rape of male prisoners passed almost without mention. Why? The widespread sex abuse of men has been publicly acknowledged by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Mary Robinson. What motivated journalists to suppress information about these monstrous sex crimes? The media did, after all, report every other inhumanity with a reasonable degree of honesty and impartiality. Accounts collected by UN observers from ethnic Albanian refugees and former detainees confirm that many male prisoners were raped at gun-point and sexually tortured under interrogation by Serb forces in Kosovo. In some conquered villages, Serb soldiers rounded up the men and boys, stripped them naked, and forced the boys to fellate their fathers, and the fathers to sodomise their sons."

http://www.petertatchell.net/international/homophobia.htm

[wretchard]

I am wrong and you are right, there is not official status of forces agreement with Saudi Arabia. http://www-sa.arcent.army.mil/welcome/

And the relevant portion of the memo says, "Female soldiers are issued an abayya for wear off-post.". Surprise, surprise. I am truly mortified and sorry to know that I am full of s...

[Gunrunner2]

Hello Lorianne, my, doing a lot of reading I see. Good. Now to the point. I did not dispute the rape of males, I was disputing the rape of American POWs. As far as source of my proof, all I can say is there are classified intelligence data not releaseable and each POW is throughly de-briefed. In addition, as a former--now recently retired--fighter pilot that endured POW training, I can assure you, ony a passing reference was made during training regarding male rape. If rape was a credible possibility then you can be assured this would have been a part of our training, as the unanticipated shock of it would seriously affect your ability to resist. "They" would not have overlooked this aspect in your training. I can not go into any more detail. Sounds weak, but I certainly hope my previous posts on this site demonstrate some credibility regarding military matters.
Suffice it to say, rape of American male POWs is quite rare and for the Gulf War, non-existant. As far as Viet Nam is concerned, off hand I can't recall any reports that this happened to American POWs. If you have unclassified sources that report such a thing, please provide.
Bottom line: 100% of female POWs in the Gulf War were raped, whereas one (1) male British POW was. And female POW rape/torture is a weapon that can be used against the male POWs.

[Gunrunner2]

>>Surprise, surprise. I am truly mortified and sorry to know that I am full of s... <<

Oh, come on. . .no need for that. . .I'll accept quiet contrition and loud loyalty. . .
HA!
;-)

[Silkchance]

There have been many studies done on the subject of Women in the military. In fact I just finished reading one. It has been proven many times that women are fully capable of being infantry combatants. The people who oppose that fact point out arguments like
women lack upper body strength
That is only true to a certain point. Women have 2/3 of the upper body strength that men have. That is not all that weak. They also run 90% as fast as males. That isn't all that slow either. Pulling the weak card is old. The theory of women only belonging in the home is old. Another argument is that guys get distracted from their work because they feel protective of the females.
“You men are not our protectors... if you were, who would there be to protect us from.” -Dr. Mary Edwards Clark
That brings us to the rape issue. Rape is an expected form of installing fear, in male or female. No one wants to be raped. When women join the military it should be an expected thing to be raped if captured. It also should be an expected thing to be killed while engaged in battle, yet we allow males to sign up for any job in the military even though they may be killed. Yes rape is not the same as dying but it should be an expected thing nonetheless. Women should have the choice to be a infantry combatant with the risk of being raped if captured, males should not dictate what field women should be in despite the risks.
With the subject of this Woman Pilot getting upset about having to obey the law of Saudi Arabia, I would think people would understand the frustration of someone forced to do something that is not forced in their native country. However I think their are times when you have to suck it up and deal with it. In this case I believe that she should have dealt with it differently thought she believed it was against her rights as a US citizen. Perhaps she was trying to cause trouble knowing she could get away with it because she was a woman, but woman have special treatment because there are still sexist people that do discriminate because of gender.

[MrB]

No, no, no...

multiculturalism means that the Western Traditional Culture must be repressed until it is destroyed. It’s the only thing standing between the libs and Utopia, don’t you know.

They’ll take care of that pesky Islam as soon as they use it to get rid of their biggest obstacle.

[End Times Sentinel]

07/18/2002 3:46:46 PM EDT

Holy moly B! Responding to a five year old thread?!

I feel like I've suddenly been surprised by a picture of me in 2nd grade wearing shortpants.

Truth be told I've been wringing my hands for all this time waiting for a response...

[MrB]

I really didn’t look at the thread date...

Look at the post above mine. This thing was BTTT last night for some reason, and I was just reading through the top few, and you happened to catch my eye.

[End Times Sentinel]

Just funnin’ ya B.