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We were duped about Okla. bombing
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ^ | Monday, July 15, 2002 | Ralph R. Reiland

Posted on 07/21/2002 8:36:02 AM PDT by Jean S

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:02:31 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Shortly after the explosion at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, an "all points bulletin" went out over the Oklahoma City police radio band alerting law enforcement officers to be on the lookout for a "late model, almost new, Chevrolet, full-size pickup, brown in color with tinted windows and a smoke-colored bug deflector on the front."


(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: okcbombing; terrorism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 07/21/2002 8:36:02 AM PDT by Jean S
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: JeanS; glorygirl; cgk; OKCSubmariner; Nancie Drew; BlueDogDemo; thinden; Nita Nupress; honway
"We, as American citizens, had a right to know that the Iraqi regime was directly implicated in the bombing of the Murrah building in Oklahoma City," writes columnist Carol Devine-Molin.

Is this part of the war drum beating for the get Iraq crowd?

4 posted on 07/21/2002 8:49:49 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: JeanS

And with the precedent we are setting over 9/11 it's amazing he didn't stay in power forever.

5 posted on 07/21/2002 8:50:42 AM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: JeanS; *OKCbombing
OKCBOMBING

Click here for OKC BOMBING BUMP LIST 

Other Bump Lists at: Free Republic Bump List Register



6 posted on 07/21/2002 8:53:09 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: rabidone
Please put on your tinfoil hat and then answer me.....is Tim dead?
7 posted on 07/21/2002 8:57:34 AM PDT by bert
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To: bert
Please put on your tinfoil hat and then answer me.....is Tim dead?

Is he dead? Only the Shadow knows for sure. I have often wondered this myself.

Witness protection program maybe?

8 posted on 07/21/2002 9:01:38 AM PDT by SheLion
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The freemasons did it!! Don't be fooled!
9 posted on 07/21/2002 9:04:15 AM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: rabidone
McVeigh's lawyers tried to bring it up. Te problem was they had a psychotically egocentric client who also wasn't the type to rat out his buddies.
10 posted on 07/21/2002 9:13:16 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: rabidone
Tim went quietly because his sister was threatened with prosecution.
11 posted on 07/21/2002 9:13:34 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: JeanS
Im confused, the article mentioned by the Iranians and the Iraqi's. Which are the ones that I should put on my tin foil to avoid?

All you tin foilers out there... do you really think McVeigh could be in witness protection and no one would talk. In Washington, if two people are privy to something, one of them is talking.

12 posted on 07/21/2002 9:21:59 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: rabidone
will someone tell me why McVeigh would allow himself to be executed without mentioning (in his defense) the participation of Iraquis (whom he had fought against in the Persian Gulf War)
You raise a very good point. Also, why wouldn't someone claim the "credit" for the "successful" bombing?
13 posted on 07/21/2002 9:25:59 AM PDT by Clara Lou
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To: happygrl
Tim went quietly because his sister was threatened with prosecution.

Yeah right? Who is going to take sure death to avoid a sibbling possibly being prosecuted and possibly being convicted (especially if the prosecution would bring into question his own quilt). I think some of you are willing to go any length to believe that Tim Lives and that the "cigarette smoking man" does in fact run the US government. Repeat after me...The X-Files was only a TV program.

14 posted on 07/21/2002 9:29:58 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: rabidone
McVeigh probably did not know he was used by the Islamists. He died willingly because he did set off the Ryder truck bomb, but he never knew who was really behind the plot. I believe Terry Nichols knows, and is the key to unraveling the whole thing. His trips to the Phillipines were covered up by the ruse of going there to find a wife.

There is also the supposed evidence suggesting that there were bombs planted inside the Murrah building, which actually did most of the damage. McVeigh may not have known about these, which could have been planted by the Islamists.

I do not think you have to be a tin-foil hat wearer to believe this. Oklahoma City has a well known, large population of expatriate Iraqis. They did not announce their involvement in the crime, as other terrorist groups have, because McVeigh was captured so quickly and they knew that they could continue planning other operations, TWA 800 being one probable example. Clinton obviously had a vested interest in covering up the OKC plot; it was the thing that saved his presidency. Of course, then he had to cover up TWA 800 so the OKC plot would not be uncovered.

It does seem fishy to see this in a mainstream paper, just as we are running up to a probable invasion of Iraq; but just because the timing is fishy doesn't mean it isn't true!!

15 posted on 07/21/2002 9:33:24 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers
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To: Fred Mertz
15 of the 19 9-11 highjackers were from Saudi Arabia. Are the Saudis now doing anything to crack down on extremists?

One of the main "masterminds" behind the 9-11 attacks was a Kuwaiti national. Any more suspects being rooted out there?

Hey! Great idea...Let's bomb Iraq. I'm not saying that Saddam doesn't need his ass kicked, but he sure makes one hell of a whipping boy when the going gets rough and we want to deflect any blame or responsibility away from our "allies".

16 posted on 07/21/2002 9:34:15 AM PDT by pocat
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To: Dems_R_Losers
Also note that some people who saw John Doe #2 described him as Middle Eastern in appearance. Why has he never been found and questioned?
17 posted on 07/21/2002 9:35:54 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers
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To: Jhoffa_
I think it was the freemòòsers.
18 posted on 07/21/2002 9:38:18 AM PDT by jumpstartme
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To: nuda_veritas; Cagey; SeeRushToldU_So
Sounds like propaganda from the Bush administration coming at this time onlyweeks before an Iraqi strike, and an election

Hey Hillary, we don't buy this crap here......take it back to DU.........

19 posted on 07/21/2002 9:41:37 AM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
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To: JeanS
Yeah, and we didn't land on the moon either.Right? Give it a rest. You're an embarrassment.
20 posted on 07/21/2002 9:42:24 AM PDT by PolishProud
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To: Dems_R_Losers
I think we have caught him and his name is Padilla. JMHO
21 posted on 07/21/2002 9:43:57 AM PDT by BigWaveBetty
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To: Dems_R_Losers
I think you're right. McVeigh either did not know it or did not want to admit that he had been used. He was a cold and somewhat sociopathic person, I think, but even folks like that have their pride.

As for the reason that this is coming up now, I think the info and the interest have been out there for a long time. But it's only with the information emerging from the investigation of the WTC events that we are seeing everything that was suppressed by Clinton's regime, and now it's finally beginning to come together publicly.

The odd thing is that I was abroad when OKC happened, and everybody, even in Europe, knew right away that it was Islamic terrorists. And then, suddenly, Bill Clinton emerged with a member of the VRWC.

This is not to say McVeigh was not involved in it. But he clearly didn't do it alone, and it probably wasn't his idea, simply because he does not appear to have been somebody who was capable of making the plans and setting it up (to say nothing of the fact that all of tactics had Middle Eastern methods written all over them). Look for more to come out; it may take a while for the major news source pick this up, but it's happening.
22 posted on 07/21/2002 9:47:27 AM PDT by livius
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To: Dave S
I didn't say that Tim lives, nor do I think that the cigarette smoking man ran runs the show.

But there must be some reason why the Feds shut up the investigation into the ME connection and the identity of the John Does.

Read the OKC Bombing archives on FR - you might learn something.

23 posted on 07/21/2002 9:51:32 AM PDT by happygrl
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To: JeanS
America is in permanent dupe mode.
24 posted on 07/21/2002 10:01:01 AM PDT by babylonian
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To: JeanS
There are two separate topics. One is the rather transparent effort to agitate for war by pinning OKC on Iraq. This sort of thing happens all the time and shouldn't be blindly accepted on scanty "evidence."

The other topic is the loose ends and mysteries surrounding McVeigh, Nichols, "John Doe #2," and the OKC bombing. These questions are still alive and important. They are a major reason why many came to Free Republic in the first place, some years ago.

As with the 1968 MLK assassination, there's just too much in the way of money and travel and other loose ends to assume that there wasn't something else involved than just the one or two men convicted in each case.

25 posted on 07/21/2002 10:05:41 AM PDT by x
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To: rabidone
I was not wearing my tin foil hat when I read this so will someone tell me why McVeigh would allow himself to be executed without mentioning (in his defense) the participation of Iraquis (whom he had fought against in the Persian Gulf War)?

Maybe to protect his father and sister. Maybe, because he was a true believer and really hated the USA and it's government, knew that other attacks were in the works and didn't want to do anything to jeapordize them. Who knows? But anyone who believes that McVeigh and Nichols did this on their own is delusional. I believe that Clinton knew this at the time...but he had excellent political instincts and saw how he could use it to turn the public against the GOP...and given the choice between advancing HIS political career or serving the nation which do you suppose Bill Clinton would opt for?

26 posted on 07/21/2002 10:14:18 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: livius
One thing that I continue to wonder about is the role of the FBI in all of this. McVeigh was caught so quickly and tied to the Ryder truck, which made law enforcement look great. The other evidence strongly suggesting ME involvement was still not as clear-cut as the evidence implicating McVeigh in the actual bombing. Clinton latched on to McVeigh and took off immediately on the hate radio/militia thing, and got the political momentum for new laws allowing the FBI to do more surveillance on the militia types. So, it's entirely plausible that Clinton never even knew about the evidence of ME involvement - the FBI covered it all up to make themselves look good and get the new laws they wanted passed. Then, the FBI went on to cover up TWA 800, to keep their @sses covered from OKC. When Ashcroft, Mueller, and company came in, suddenly all this new FBI evidence came out that was never made available to McVeigh's lawyers.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm......

27 posted on 07/21/2002 10:19:21 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers
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To: pgkdan
But anyone who believes that McVeigh and Nichols did this on their own is delusional.
While I believe there is a Nichols - Islamic connection to OKC, it is plausable that McVeigh blew up his truck himself. All it requies is a truck (any yahoo can pick one up) and a lot of fertilizer (visit a dozen Home Depots). Throw in some explosives and that's it.
One thing that I can't believe is that just this one bomb took out the entire building.
28 posted on 07/21/2002 10:24:08 AM PDT by lelio
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To: rabidone
I read somewhere that McVeigh became sympathetic to the Iraqis once he came home. Maybe someone else can point you in that direction with some documentation?
29 posted on 07/21/2002 10:27:39 AM PDT by Liberty Teeth
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To: x
There are many similarities with OKC and the JFK murder

In both instances the ivestigation immediately focused on one(OKC two)people and ALL other evidence that might point to the contrary was ignored. Statements from individuals that did not support the party line were either not taken or not followed up on. In both instances VERY incriminating evidence was found on the suspect, evidence that would have been jettisoned immediately after the crime. In both cases, anyone that comes forward and refutes or even questions the party line is branded a kook, or with the famous "How can you do this to the fanily/suriviors?" My guess is that L. Freeh was involved/knew more than he will ever tell.

30 posted on 07/21/2002 10:41:35 AM PDT by morjon
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Liberty Teeth
I read somewhere that McVeigh became sympathetic to the Iraqis once he came home. Maybe someone else can point you in that direction with some documentation?

An Essay on Hypocrisy
By Timothy McVeigh
Reprinted with permission from Media Bypass. Parthenocarpy is interested in any existing or future rebuttals of this essay.
Please contact us here to contribute.


Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc. Editor's note: Timothy McVeigh, sentenced to death for his role in the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City, penned the following essay, dated "March 1998," from his cell in the administrative maximum section of the federal prison in Florence, Colo. In a preface, McVeigh wrote "I have chosen Media Bypass as a possible forum for this piece because, frankly, I realize that it is quite provocative -- and I rather doubt that any mainstream media would touch it. [Note that although the enclosed is very provocative, it was written to provoke thought -- and was not written with malevolent intent.]"

McVeigh appologized for the essay being handwritten, but noted his "current (unique) environment does not provide access to a typewriter, a word processor or a copier. (hell, I'm lucky they let me have a pen!), so I hope you understand why this is being submitted handwritten -- and I hope you can overcome this shortcoming."

McVeigh, whose interview with Media Bypass [February 1996] was picked up and dissected by the New York Times and major media outlets across the nation, also expressed concerns that reporting subsequent to this essay might be "printed out of context... but at least the original can be accurate."

A decorated U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War, McVeigh hereby offers his contribution to the debate over U.S. policy toward Iraq, a policy that McVeigh says is marked by a "deep hypocrisy."


The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") -- mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.Sl is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterent purposes during the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterence) -- with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these pictures juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones-- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to death of children? In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.

(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and mens rea [criminal intent] in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" -- they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign tartgets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivilent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely


Timothy J. McVeigh

Copyright (c) 1998, Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc.

32 posted on 07/21/2002 10:55:24 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: The Great Satan
Thanks, I never saw that before.
33 posted on 07/21/2002 11:18:41 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: JeanS
Interesting stuff bump!
34 posted on 07/21/2002 11:29:32 AM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: Dave S
I guess the associated press is part of the conspiracy to make Middle Easteners and Clinton's FBI loook bad huh? I noticed you didn't dispute one fact in the story. Too bad you can't use your mind to attack facts and instead have to attack people and completely misrepresent their arguments to do so.

So tell us all then are you an Islamic disruptor with an obviously fake Americanized name? Or are you an Iranian or Iraqi trying to pretend your country isn't invoved in terrorism?

35 posted on 07/21/2002 11:37:38 AM PDT by spycatcher
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To: Dems_R_Losers
There's enough to make anybody wonder about this one! I'm not a conspiracy theorist (I think most things in this world are, like it or not, exactly what they seem), but this one does make me think twice.

If the FBI had something to do with this, I really don't think the it acted on its own, even if it had something to cover up (intelligence failure, perhaps?). Remember, Janet Reno was in charge of the whole show at that time. Nothing that happened under her watch was either (a) non-political (everything she did, she did to protect Bill) or (b) honest and open.

I hope a lot of serious questions are being asked in Washington about this right now. Actually, they probably don't have questions in Washington, except how much they should release at a given time and when they should do it.

Bush has been very reluctant to do anything that would make Bill look bad, mostly, I think, because he feels that this might undermine respect for the office of the Presidency. So I think we might see this stuff starting to come out in indirect ways, through the regional press, for example, until enough critical mass develops for the story to make it to the big leagues. Will this story help mobilize opinion against Iraq (or any other Arab terrorists we decide to attack)? Of course. Does that make it untrue? Not at all.

36 posted on 07/21/2002 11:44:29 AM PDT by livius
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To: rabidone
From a psychological perspective, it's important to homicidal serial killer personalities like McVeigh that they are in control. It was vital to McVeigh that he be viewed by the public as the mastermind of the bombing, a patriot and revolutionary like the founding fathers. I do wonder whether he teamed up with his fellow madmen in the al Queda to perform that bombing, and kept mum above all because he knew a larger campaign on their part was on the way, but in any event psychology provides a explanation for why he kept quiet about the help he must have received from some other domestic or foreign source.
37 posted on 07/21/2002 11:49:24 AM PDT by motexva
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To: rabidone
"McVeigh would allow himself to be executed without mentioning (in his defense) the participation of Iraquis (whom he had fought against in the Persian Gulf War)?"

Put on your tinfoil hat--here goes! What if they told him they would fix him up with a new identity if he kept his mouth shut. That the execution would be a sham?

Carolyn

38 posted on 07/21/2002 11:52:37 AM PDT by CDHart
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To: JeanS
In fact, Bill Clinton accomplished the opposite.

Instead of telling the truth and uniting Americans on "common ground" against a foreign enemy, he chose to divide the country in order to remain in office for four more years.

What else should we have expected from this puked up hairball?

39 posted on 07/21/2002 11:57:40 AM PDT by VOYAGER
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To: pgkdan
I believe that Clinton knew this at the time...but he had excellent political instincts and saw how he could use it to turn the public against the GOP...and given the choice between advancing HIS political career or serving the nation which do you suppose Bill Clinton would opt for?

When it comes to Bill Clinton I'm even more cynical than you are. I doubt that he spent even thirty seconds pondering who actually did it. I think his first last and only thought was "How can I use this to help myself?".

40 posted on 07/21/2002 12:20:54 PM PDT by TigersEye
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To: VOYAGER
What else should we have expected from this puked up hairball?

Much as I detest Clinton, I didn't notice Bush exposing this lie or those around TWA 800, Flight 587, etc., etc.

It seems there is a US government policy to either (when possible) pretend terrorist acts are accidents or (when it's obviously terrorism but not quite so obvious who the perpetrators are) create fairy tale like stories that deny the true terrorists credit. It's like Americans can't be trusted to know the truth.

41 posted on 07/21/2002 12:21:28 PM PDT by EaglesUpForever
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To: Dave S; rabidone; bert; SheLion; Jhoffa_; Clara Lou; pocat; motexva; Dems_R_Losers; lelio; ...
"I think some of you are willing to go any length to believe that ... the "cigarette smoking man" does in fact run the US government. Repeat after me...The X-Files was only a TV program"

Tell that to Kenneth Timmerman.

Insight Online World Exclusive
Posted April 19, 2002

The retirement of career FBI Special Agent Danny Defenbaugh, accused by defense attorneys and plaintiffs in the Oklahoma City bombing case of withholding key evidence, wasn't the only dramatic development in the continuing controversies surrounding the April 19, 1995, attack that killed 168 people.

Insight has learned that the widow of Philippine-government intelligence agent Edwin Angeles has provided audiotaped testimony to an investigator working for the American victims' families that directly ties Iraqi intelligence agents to Terry Nichols, the man sentenced in 1998 to life in prison for his role in bombing the Alfred P. Murrah Building seven years ago.

Elmina Abdul is the 27-year-old widow of Angeles, one of the cofounders of the Abu Sayyaf group, a Muslim separatist terrorist organization in the Philippines whose members trained in Osama bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan. Her astonishing story, revealed in this exclusive story for the first time, could blow the lid off what a growing number of people believe is a U.S. government cover-up of vital evidence in the Oklahoma City bombing case. It also exposes an alleged plot ginned up by former Philippine president Fidel Ramos to manipulate Abu Sayyaf as a means of enhancing his personal political power.

With the knowledge that she was dying of liver disease, Elmina agreed to meet with Dorian Zumel Sicat, a Manila Times correspondent serving as an investigative liaison in the Philippines and the Pacific Rim for Oklahoma City lawyer Mike Johnston, who represents the victims' families. "I want to tell the truth of what I know of my late husband," she said in a taped audio statement.

Angeles was "what they call a 'deep-penetration agent'" who was working for "some very powerful men in the DND," the Philippine national defense-intelligence agency, Elmina said. Angeles was arrested in 1995 after he had negotiated a deal to turn himself in to the Philippine authorities. By that point, the Abu Sayyaf he had helped create in 1991 with bin Laden protégé Abdurajjak Abu Bakr Janjalani had carried out a series of terrorist attacks. These included a failed assault on a U.S. Information Agency library in Manila in January 1991 that was part of a worldwide terrorist campaign against U.S. interests orchestrated by Iraq during the Persian Gulf War.

"Does the name 'Ramzi Yousef' mean something to you, Mr. Sicat?" Elmina asked. Angeles had extensive meetings with Yousef and two Americans, including one whom he called "Terry" or "The Farmer," she said.

Angeles ultimately was cleared of terrorism charges at trial, when documents proving he was working as a government agent were produced. He was released from prison in 1996 — but not before he provided astonishing details during a videotaped interrogation by Philippine police authorities of his activities with Abu Sayyaf, including the secret meetings with Iraqi intelligence agent Yousef, Nichols and the second American identified in the document as John Lepney.

The earliest meetings took place at a Del Monte canning plant in Davao in late 1992 and early 1993 — just prior to the first World Trade Center bombing. Later meetings with Nichols, Yousef and the second American — whose name has never been revealed until now — took place at Angeles' house in late 1994, according to a report on that interrogation which has been obtained by investigators working for attorney Johnston, who has been joined by Judicial Watch in representing families of those murdered in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Angeles also revealed the meetings to Elmina, who became his third wife in 1997, "because he knew that he would soon be killed," she said in her audiotaped statement with Sicat, which was witnessed by a Philippine-government official. "He wanted me to know everything so that if anything happened to him I could tell others." Also present at those meetings was a half-brother of Yousef, who was using the pseudonym Ahmad Hassim, she said.

"They met almost every day for one week. They met in an empty bodega [warehouse]. They talked about bombings. They mentioned bombing government buildings in San Francisco, St. Louis and in Oklahoma. The Americans wanted instructions on how to make and to explode bombs. He [Edwin] told me that Janjalani was very interested in paying them much money to explode the buildings. The money was coming from Yousef and the other Arab."

When asked if Angeles had told her the results of those conversations, Elmina replied: "He told me that the Americans exploded one bomb in Oklahoma in 1995, after he was arrested and after we first met."

Later in the interview, she chided Sicat for not knowing that Yousef was "representing Iraq and Saddam Hussein."

"Did Edwin tell you that?" Sicat asked.

"Not only Edwin, but others that were close to us, before he was killed," Elmina said. "One time, a [Philippine-army] soldier and Edwin were talking secretly. I was there because Edwin demanded [it]. The soldier ordered Edwin never to tell anybody about the Iraqis."

On Jan. 14, 1999, Elmina was waiting for her husband in an open-air market in Isabela, the provincial capital of Basilan province. Suddenly, as he emerged from a nearby mosque, she watched as two of his former associates walked up behind him and, with .45-caliber automatics, pumped six bullets into him. He staggered toward her and died in her arms.

The video interrogation linking Nichols to Yousef, bin Laden and Iraq initially was obtained by Stephen Jones, the defense attorney who represented convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. But at the insistence of federal prosecutors, trial judge Richard P. Matsch refused to admit it into evidence.

The judge also refused to admit into evidence the testimony of Yousef coconspirator Abdul Hakim Murad, who was a federal prisoner at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City. Murad was awaiting trial for his part in Project Bojinka, a plot hatched up by Yousef to blow up 11 U.S. 747 jetliners over the Pacific Ocean in 1995 (see "Iraqi Connection to Oklahoma Bombing," April 15). On the day of the Oklahoma City bombing he told his jailers that Yousef had orchestrated the plot.

"Why should Murad be believed?" Johnston asks rhetorically. "For one thing, Murad made his 'confession' voluntarily and spontaneously. Most important, Murad tied Ramzi Yousef to the Oklahoma City bombing long before Terry Nichols was publicly identified as a suspect."

Johnston informed Jones last week he would be serving him with a desk subpoena to obtain this and other materials that were either sealed by the court or not admitted as evidence in the McVeigh trial. Shortly after Johnston got off the phone with him, Jones received threatening calls from federal prosecutors in Denver and Oklahoma City, warning him not to release the materials, Insight is told by a close associate of the lawyer. Jones did not return several calls by press time.

FBI spokesman Bill Carter tells Insight the FBI was unaware of a "foreign terrorist connection" to the Oklahoma City bombing. "There is no evidence of a foreign connection in our files," he says. "The Oklahoma City bombing was investigated thoroughly by the FBI; no evidence was found that would tie it to any foreign terrorist group. If we had found any evidence, it would have been presented."

That statement, like so many others from the government in this murky case, appears to be extraordinarily misleading to the families of victims still not convinced that they or the American public know the full story of what happened seven years ago.

In the Philippines, the real story of the Abu Sayyaf and its ties to Iraq, bin Laden and to former president Ramos — who is planning a comeback into Philippine politics — is a dangerous topic.

In his videotaped interrogation, Angeles says Yousef first approached him in July 1989 as the "personal envoy" of bin Laden to set up a new base for regional Islamic expansion on the Muslim island of Mindanao. At the time, bin Laden's brother-in-law, Mohammad Jamal Khalifa, was operating commercial front companies in the Philippines for bin Laden. This apparently led to the creation of the Abu Sayyaf.

A former CIA station chief in Manila confirms to Insight that bin Laden came to the Philippines personally in 1992 and was flown down to Mindanao in a government C-130 aircraft by then-president Ramos. "Bin Laden presented himself as a wealthy Saudi who wanted to invest in Muslim areas and donate money to charity," the former CIA officer says.

While Yousef was collecting money from bin Laden, he was taking orders from Iraq and is believed by U.S. intelligence officials to have carried out the June 20, 1994, bombing of a Shiite Muslim shrine in Mashad, Iran, on orders from Iraq. Yousef reportedly carried out that attack with help from his own father and a younger brother, Abdul Muneem, in conjunction with an Iraqi front group, the Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization, also known as the People's Mujahideen Organization of Iran.

Angeles "knew he was going to be killed by his own people once he was released from jail," Sicat tells Insight in a telephone interview from Davao, a city on Mindanao. "The question is, who were his own people? Abu Sayyaf, or the cabal who had Angeles help set them up?"

Angeles' second wife, who had prepared the meals for Nichols and Yousef, was gunned down during a government raid on an Abu Sayyaf safe house in 1996. Elmina died last month just days after giving her taped audio statements to Sicat, who tells Insight that he has received death threats and been shot at in recent weeks by unknown assailants. He recently has been given round-the- clock police protection by the government, which is investigating the attacks.

If the remaining witnesses live long enough, the only question left is whether the Bush administration will order the FBI to reopen its files. Or, as some of the lawyers in the case and their clients fear, the administration will endorse what they believe — and testimony now in hand suggests — was a wider conspiracy that was hidden by the Clinton administration and Janet Reno's Justice Department. It may require full and open congressional hearings if the current administration refuses to help or otherwise blocks the federal courts from re-examining the case to find out why the U.S. government shut down preliminary investigations into possible overseas links to the murder of Americans in downtown Oklahoma City.

Kenneth R. Timmerman is a senior writer for Insight magazine.




42 posted on 07/21/2002 12:25:14 PM PDT by glorygirl
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To: lelio
One thing that I can't believe is that just this one bomb took out the entire building.

Neither could a retired U.S. Army General, an expert in explosives, who did a detailed study of it. He concluded that the damage done and the condition of the powdered concrete at the base of the building indicated the positioning of specific charges at the base of structural columns in the basement of the building.

43 posted on 07/21/2002 12:26:29 PM PDT by TigersEye
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To: The Great Satan
If Saddam is such a demon,

McVeigh was totally nuts ... apparently he never took any of Uday Hussein's exploits into consideration ... Uday is totally, totally insane ... Time magazine had a good article about 1996 or so that showed all the inbreeding in the Hussein family and it was no small amount of recursive lines ...
44 posted on 07/21/2002 12:32:27 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: nuda_veritas; COB1
Oh Thank you so much for the lesson on manners in Texas.....I would never have had any idea how a REAL Texan handles anything........

You are the one who claimed this was a dupe by the Bush administration to gain votes or sympathy for an attack....I am curious, just what part of this article is BS? You doubt the Middle Eastern association? Do you actually believe this was a right wing attack perpetrated by one or two pathetic skin heads?

I stand by my statement Hillary......and I can assure you, no one in Texas would miss you.........

45 posted on 07/21/2002 12:37:34 PM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
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To: Dems_R_Losers
It does seem fishy to see this in a mainstream paper, just as we are running up to a probable invasion of Iraq; but just because the timing is fishy doesn't mean it isn't true!!

Have you checked the source. I wouldnt be surprised if it was a commentary and not a new report. Hell, it may even have been a letter to the editor.

46 posted on 07/21/2002 12:41:34 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: x
The other topic is the loose ends and mysteries surrounding McVeigh, Nichols, "John Doe #2," and the OKC bombing. These questions are still alive and important. They are a major reason why many came to Free Republic in the first place, some years ago.

No wonder this place seems full of more fruit cakes than five years ago.

47 posted on 07/21/2002 12:44:19 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA
Hear it from a friend, then, and read THIS LINK.

 

Friday, April 26, 2002

 

RP cops aware of long-term  
rightwing, Muslim connection

By Dorian Zumel-Sicat

DAVAO CITY — The lawyer of executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh has provided victims of the tragedy with a report on an interrogation linking an American trader with rightwing Americans, agents of Iraq, Osama bin Laden and the Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG).

However, the most striking thing about the transcript is that it shows Philippine police have long been aware of operational ties between local Islamic radicals and rightwing foreigners.

Why the strange alliance exists remains a puzzle to police and military intelligence agents. A senior counter-terrorist expert says commerce and short-term goals could account for the unusual ties. “Eventually, they’ll be killing each other. But for now, they seem to be working together.”

New case

US Federal agents ignored evidence of these rightwing/Islamic links in the aftermath of the April 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building. In the end, they succeeded in pinning the blame solely on McVeigh and his pal, Terry Nichols, who was married to Filipino women, one of them the daughter of Cebuano cop Eduardo Torres.

The suit filed by the Washington DC-based Judicial Watch on behalf of the victims of the 1995 blast has unearthed evidence earlier disallowed in the McVeigh trial. The victims also allege a federal cover-up of Iraqi involvement though the reason remains unclear.

McVeigh’s lawyer, Stephen Jones, provided the new plaintiffs with a report on the ‘soft interrogation’ of slain ASG co-founder and government deep cover agent, Edwin Angeles. The Manila Times obtained a copy of the document.

The report names John Lepney, an import/export trader, as among those who met in 1992 and 1993 with Angeles, Ramsey Yousef, McVeigh accomplice Terry Nichols, and some unnamed Iraqis, in a Muslim ghetto in Tibongco, this city. The meeting took place just months prior to the Oklahoma City bombing.

Series of meetings

The Angeles interrogation transcript dates back to 1996. It shows the ASG officer talking with an official of the Philippine National Police and another from the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI). Also present were two lawyers hired by Jones to witness the interrogation. The Manila Times was requested to withhold identities of the two lawyers and the two officials pending the Washington trial.

The report pictured Angeles as eager to talk, almost garrulous, offering information on mail-order brides and terrorists. It was the police officer who showed Angeles a photo album of alleged mail-order bride facilitators.

The Abu Sayyaf leader leafed through and pointed out one of the men. In the vernacular, he said, “This man I know, this is John Lepney.” He said the American lived in Davao City and was known to import appliances and electronics. Angeles knew Lepney enough to join him in massage sessions at the Plaza Roman, also in this city.

Other meetings, however, were not so innocent. Among Angeles and Lepney’s companions in subsequent gatherings were Nichols and Abdul Basis — who would later be known as Ramzi Yousef, the convicted mastermind of the first World Trade Center bombing.

At a meeting in the vicinity of the Del Monte labeling factory here, they were joined by Wali Khan, a Jordanian pilot who would later be arrested in Malaysia, and Abdul Hakim Murad, Yousef’s co-accused in the World Trade Center blast.

Angeles did not state in the interrogation what the meeting was about, but mentioned that Nichols had passed himself as a farmer. He also volunteered having stayed for at least eight months in Tibongco.

Disallowed

An intelligence source here told The Manila Times, “It is strange that people like Nichols, and this Lepney would go to that part of Tibongco. At that time it was a stronghold of Muslim separatists. They must have had serious business there for them to take the risk, even if they were accompanied by people like Angeles.”

Robert Bickel, senior investigator for the law firm of John Michael Johnston in Oklahoma City, and the representative firm Judicial Watch in Washington, DC, said the reason for the new evidence is that only certain parts of Angeles’ statements were allowed as evidence during the McVeigh and Nichols trials.

“Jones filed objections to the motions to allow the statement but to no avail. That is why we’re only hearing about Lepney now,” Bickel said in a telephone interview.

The Philippine intelligence source told The Times, that cops then were interested in knowing who bankrolled Nichols, a big spender who did not have any clear source of income. It was not clear, however, why no cop had interviewed Lepney if they were really interested in him.

Adventures

“We have to remember that Nichols had no gainful employment after his 1989 hardship discharge from the US Army. He was nothing but a farm worker who could never afford the trips to the Philippines that he made from 1990 to 1994,” the source said.

The same source also noted that Marife Nichols went to the United States supposedly to join her husband in 1994, carrying with her $4,000 in cash, and from between $10,000 to $18,000 in gold coins.

Nichols left his estranged wife, Lana Padilla with at least $20,000 in cash and up to $100,000 in gold and silver before he made his last trip to the Philippines in 1994, just months before the Oklahoma City bombing.

“Lepney appears to be the guy to find. More interesting, is the fact that the prosecution was adamant in keeping the Angeles statement out of evidence. The reason for it was the absence of a warm body. That still doesn’t hold water today,” Bickel told The Times.

The Times was able to confirm that Lepney did indeed reside and do business in Davao City during 1990 to 1996. “He would come in often. He did enjoy Tanduay and Coke, and he loved kinilaw. When he became drunk he would many times brag about his adventures with Moro rebels, but most of us just ignored him,” says a popular bar owner who has asked to remain anonymous.

Lepney’s present whereabouts, or where he exactly did business in this city are both unknown at this time.


48 posted on 07/21/2002 12:49:43 PM PDT by glorygirl
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To: glorygirl
Why are posting facts like that? Don't you know how scary facts are for some people? Geesh, does "Dave S." (the wacky Iraqi?) have to call you a tin-foiler to make you stop implicating his comrades?

Come on, you know we can trust our lives and our buildings on the faith that little Timmy McV is telling the truth. Why would he ever want to be remembered as a brilliant mastermind hero to his buddies instead of a pathetic patsy snitch?

49 posted on 07/21/2002 12:51:56 PM PDT by spycatcher
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To: rabidone
will someone tell me why McVeigh would allow himself to be executed without mentioning (in his defense) the participation of Iraquis

Well, let's see...because, regardless of what you or I think of his actions or his reasoning, he had honor and integrity and loyalty to his compatriots. (something he may have learned in the military) Then again he may not have known anything about an Iraqui connection and was duped. There are two good possibilities that don't require stretching the imagination except for those who can't wrap their minds around the concept of true honor which has nothing to do with whose side one is on.

50 posted on 07/21/2002 12:52:31 PM PDT by TigersEye
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