Todays Stock Market Thread (DJIA 7784.58 (-234.68; -2.93%) NASDAQ 1282.55 (-36.60; -2.77%)

[newsperson999]

Dow 7,784.93 -234.33 (-2.92%)
Nasdaq 1,288.09 -31.06 (-2.35%)
S&P 500 819.51 -28.25 (-3.33%)

[steveegg]

We've been trying to do that the last 2 years, but the RAT Media has no interest in presenting that side of the story. In the absence of truth, the old stereotypes will hold.

That having been said, we need to try to make Moneybags Rubin a household name.

[Alberta's Child]

Those are all good uses, but check out #147 on this thread. Despite the number of railroad rights-of-way that were abandoned in the rapidly-consolidating railroad industry over the last 50 years, very few of them were purchased by these industries!

[wardaddy]

But didn't we sage FReepers know about Rubin and Citigroups' woes related to Enron some months back?

I of course would gleefully like to see Rubin's head on a pike. If the Citigroup stuff was all over Bloomberg et al today then I would guess that effect on the market was already happening before the "rumour became fact" if you know what I mean.

I'm only standing on my experience that since the sky didn't fall today even though it was cloudy, that maybe the bargain hunters will move tommorow. The wily pros will of course wait till about an hour after the opening bell rings to catch the newbies sleeping. I never traded at the getgo(and I'm not wily..lol) except with IPOs. The spikes today show that there are still buyers in this market. Volume was about like Friday's wasn't it? I would like to see a number of days of high volume and some recovery but if I see the opposite then I know we are indeed headed for a vastly oversold market. Mass emotion is hard to peg. Another flurry of bad news and she will dip hard to be sure. I guess the 3M report was about the best news today. I don't think Worldcom mattered ...everyone knew that was coming.

We'll see. I simply can't see a prolonged DJ below these levels in this economy lasting very long unless another 9-11 happens or we find out on 8-14 that hundreds of CFOs are playing 3 card monte with the books hoping future quarters will bury their shenanigans.

Note that all 3 indices even though down, closed above their bottoms today. That is better than days which close at the bottom.

[#3Fan]

And that's why the GOP loses and the Democraps win. We overestimate the intelligence of the American people.

We certainly did in '98.

[AdamSelene235]

Welcome to deflation.

Heresy! If we were entering a deflationary enviroment our wise leaders would have taken immediate corrective action.

I think the bubble logic of the GSE's will provide the seed crystal for deflation.

Big Scary Monsters

'Fannie and Freddie Were Lenders': U.S. Real Estate Bubble Nears Its End

Fannie Mae Enron

[Jhensy]

...rates briefly dipped slightly below zero in early November. In this upside-down world, depositors were willing to pay for safekeeping, while borrowers had to be paid to take money.

Hey, Bizarro World! That's like sticking your head in for a few moments through a dimensional vortex...seeing water running uphill, cats living with dogs, etc.

[hchutch]

You may be on to something when discussing 1998.

In post 255, I pointed out how Gingrich intiially hit hard on the Lewinsky scandal, but then backed off becuase he wasn't innocent on that issue.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/720365/posts?page=255#255

The same dynamic could play out against the Dems in 2002. Rubin is one of their big economic gurus. When he was SecTreas, the market began to REALLY take off. Now, it comes out that under his watch, Citigroup was making questionable loans to Enron and Worldcom.

This could be VERY interesting...

[steveegg]

But didn't we sage FReepers know about Rubin and Citigroups' woes related to Enron some months back?...

We did, but how many of us (or people like us) are in the market? In any case, the bigger news is HPL Tech (a new case of Cooked Book Disease), which prompted the last sell-off.

...Mass emotion is hard to peg. Another flurry of bad news and she will dip hard to be sure. I guess the 3M report was about the best news today. I don't think Worldcom mattered ...everyone knew that was coming.

We'll see. I simply can't see a prolonged DJ below these levels in this economy lasting very long unless another 9-11 happens or we find out on 8-14 that hundreds of CFOs are playing 3 card monte with the books hoping future quarters will bury their shenanigans

I agree on WorldCom. The morning sell-off was those sleeping at the switch the past week.

Nobody knows what happens with an emotional bear. I've gone on the record saying that, if there's no more Cooked Book Diseased companies, the market's on a trampoline and that's stretched to its bottom. Of course, CBD is the big unknown in the market. I have a SWAG "new-investor" feeling as to how many more CBD companies will cause Dow 3000, but I am not going to mention that number because I don't want Dow 3000 (though I will say that it is less than the hundreds you mentioned, especially if some of those are in "key" companies).

[AdamSelene235]

Hey, Bizarro World! That's like sticking your head in for a few moments through a dimensional vortex...seeing water running uphill, cats living with dogs, etc.

Makes sense to me. I'm personally looking forward to a deflationary Keynesian endgame. Those trillions in debt the Feds have racked up will start looking pretty nasty when they have to pay them back in increasingly valuable dollars.

They will either have to tax us into the ground or radically alter the scope of government.

Probably both.

[Tauzero]

"Trying to understand this market is hard and extremely complex."

Not really:

[#3Fan]

The same dynamic could play out against the Dems in 2002. Rubin is one of their big economic gurus. When he was SecTreas, the market began to REALLY take off. Now, it comes out that under his watch, Citigroup was making questionable loans to Enron and Worldcom. This could be VERY interesting...

You're right, Rubin has been quiet. He's as financially crooked as Clinton was morally crooked.

[bert]

Keep in mind that CNN is in the toilet covered with AOL crap. By August 14, they might be bankrupt too when the AOL criminal accounting debacle is announced.

[aristeides]

They will either have to tax us into the ground or radically alter the scope of government.

Third possibility: A government has the power to repudiate its debts. The Spanish government did it about half a dozen times during its spiral out of great-power status. And continued to find takers for its instruments, incredibly!

[hchutch]

You got it.

And of course, when it's all revealed... what do you think this sounds like to you? Sounds like we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black, and we also have Rubin is SecTreas. It could get very bloody for the Dems, and the whole "corporate corruption" issue could seriously boomerang on them.

And if they drop it, a lot of "progressives" will go to the Green Party. They are between a rock and a hard place.

[aristeides]

How does AOL continue to cover CNN losses?

[gcallah]

Why would we want to overlook their bashing of Bush? No president has done more to expand government since LBJ. No president has done worse by free trade since Hoover.

[steveegg]

You have 3 "leadership" groups at work at AOHell/Time Warner. The first is the "old guard" from TimeWarner. The second is the almost-out-of-power Turner crowd. The last is the "high-flying" AOHell crowd. It's the latter that have caused the "irregularities" over there.

[bert]

AOL is the covering on the big crapball of which CNN is a part. AOL is dragging it all down because it earns nothing and never has. They now have to fess up. I think AOL has always cooked it's books . There was ooodles of cash to play all kinds of tricks with...including buying TimeWarner CNN in which the losses could be obscured. AOL is a consortium of loosers.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Thanks a ton Wardaddy,...appreciate solid advice. Best wishes for you and yours. I'm thinking of watching until the 14th, then goin in. :o)