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Tolerating Intolerance: The Challenge of Fundamentalist Islam in Western Europe
Partisan Reviews ^ | 24 jul 02 | Bruce Bawer

Posted on 07/24/2002 7:17:43 AM PDT by white trash redneck

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To: ZeitgeistSurfer
Nostradamus is that you?....L~
41 posted on 07/25/2002 4:15:36 AM PDT by Bad~Rodeo
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To: zhabotinsky
given a choice between siding with the Arabs and their inclination towards homosexuality and bisexuality or siding the Jews, whose Old Testament is responsible for all those nasty rules in society which made it a heinous crime

Well, it sounds quite possible, at least as a part of the equation.

What springs to mind, is a connection with the Left again:

the Soviet spy and utter Brit Kim Philby was always in odds with the women in his life; in his memoir (or one of the letters?) he confessed that in his public school he "used to be buggered and was buggering others". Among the rest four members of the group Blunt and Burgess were openly homosexual, and McLean, though married and having children, remained uncertain about his own sexual orientation even in his thirties.

What Islam has to do with all this? Just recall the story of Philby's father: a convicted Nazist and one of the countless British copy-cat Lawrences of Arabia. The old bugger converted to Islam, moved to Beirut, married an Arab woman and produced for Kim a number of mongrel half-brothers...

42 posted on 07/25/2002 4:36:30 AM PDT by Neophyte
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To: Phillip Augustus; Ohioan
I would hesitate to call the article "excellent".

While I agree that the solutions proposed are inadequate and not well-considered, this is still an excellent article. If "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged", we have here evidence that the liberals realize they've been mugged, and are starting to *think*!!

That represents enormous progress, and constitutes "excellence" by that fact alone. We'll help them figure it out.

43 posted on 07/25/2002 4:47:06 AM PDT by FreedomPoster
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To: Greybird; Thinkin' Gal; Prodigal Daughter; Jeremiah Jr; Crazymonarch
The Muslim culture is full of homosexuality.  It is a satanic death cult centered mostly on CONTROL!

Kandahar comes out of the closet -- ...the gay capital of South Asia throw off strictures of the Taleban...

See "The Sexual Rage Behind Islamic Terror" by Jamie Glazov, FrontPage Magazine columnist here:  22 or here:  The Sexual Rage Behind Islamic Terror

See "Repressed Homosexuality" by Michael Griffin at 50 here.

44 posted on 07/25/2002 5:03:04 AM PDT by 2sheep
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To: Gritty; Thinkin' Gal; Jeremiah Jr; babylonian; ex-Texan
>It has been said many times before on this forum and I'll say it again: we need to round up and deport all non-citizen Muslims immediately for our own safety.

When the President dines and hobnobs with Muslims and the FBI says conservatives and gun owners are the terrorists, the round up you see in the future may not be of Muslims.  Pray hard, repent harder!

45 posted on 07/25/2002 5:10:16 AM PDT by 2sheep
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To: Neophyte; zhabotinsky
>Communism under the green banner of Islam after the total fail of the red banner...

Communism is not dead, merely hiding under other guises, even blue and white.  There are many similarities between the sickle and the crescent.

Communists and Islamic Extremists - Then and Now

46 posted on 07/25/2002 5:44:29 AM PDT by 2sheep
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To: white trash redneck
the Guardian described a student conference on "Islamophobia" at King’s College, London, at which a speaker began by announcing politely, "I am a gay Muslim."

Welcome to the real world, Mr. gay intellectual.

The above sentence brought an otherwise insightful and thought-provoking essay to an abrupt end for me.

Muslims are not the only ones susceptible to profound,total and fatal blind spots.

Gayness may never figure out that being in the closet may not be the hell they insist it was, considering the real-life alternatives.

But gayness is a temporary irritation, and not yet violent.
Islam is violent, uncompromising, here and permanent. If we let it.

47 posted on 07/25/2002 6:05:40 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
The First Amendment is a live-and-let-live doctrine.

Sounds simple, doesn't it.

Unfortunately, too many controlling idiots insists on ignoring the "let live" part.
Like that nut-case in California.

48 posted on 07/25/2002 6:10:06 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: Jack Black
Thus Norway must die, to be replaced by Europa and Europa herself must invite in the millions of unwashed to save her from her ethinic isolation. This seems to be the implied message of this article and much of the thinking of the Euro Socialist Elite.

So long as they keep their choices domestic, like those big brave Taliban men beating helpless women with sticks, I see no harm in this.
But once they start exporting their twisted and asinine beliefs directly or through surrogates, bombs are the only effective and just response.

I would not exclude Holland or Norway.

49 posted on 07/25/2002 6:15:28 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: Greybird
Could it be that the brutal deaths of 3,000-odd, mostly Christian, Americans last September 11 would finally induce making changes in the Mideast, of attitudes or governments, that would end up allowing a few thousand homosexuals to stay alive after all?

Defining the problem in terms of "gayness" neutralizes totally the otherwise eloquent and powerful arguments presented in the essay.
This is bigger than goes far beyond a minor (but no longer harmless) perversion.

50 posted on 07/25/2002 6:18:58 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
The First Amendment is a live-and-let-live doctrine.

True, but those in the radical Islamic "community" don't believe in live and let live.

As an aside,
"To all appearances, the 54-year-old Sheikh Kabbani sees himself as the catalyst for making his brand of Islam the dominant Muslim force in the U.S. However, most American Muslim organizations see dangerous divisiveness in his message. Kabbani gained the enmity of nearly every Muslim group in the U.S. on Jan. 7 when he delivered a speech to a State Department open forum."

"In essence, the white-bearded Sufi charged that the “ideology of extremism has been spread to 80 percent of the [American] Muslim population.” He claimed the foremost Muslim student organization was directed by extremists and hinted that alleged terrorist Osama bin Laden was buying nuclear devices from the Russian mafia which could then fall into the hands of radical Muslim students in the U.S."
Dispute Between Kabbani Followers and Hosts Disrupts Forum at Islamic Center of Southern California By Pat McDonnell Twair July/August 1999, pages 21, 83

51 posted on 07/25/2002 6:24:17 AM PDT by Valin
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To: Neophyte
Yes, I mean the Serbs... Oh, but they were East, not West, Europeans... how stupid of me to miss this crucial difference!

OK, quit beating that dead horse.
It was a profound and total historical and social blunder, that recent incident.

Many if not most Americans can see it clearly now.
Remember who instigated it and why. He wanted a legacy; well, he has one now.

Join us now in correcting that enormous mistake.

52 posted on 07/25/2002 6:29:23 AM PDT by Publius6961
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To: yendu bwam
"There's no reason why Norway shouldn't remain Norwegian"

Well...there is one reason: The political left throughout the Western World has been busily deconstructing traditional western culture for the purpose of rendering the west helpless against the advance of socialism. As the socialist Grimisci wrote about extensively: it is better to make a long march through the cultural institutions and subvert them than to rely on a Bolshevik-style putsch.

Multiculturalism and uncontrolled third world immigration are ploys being undertaken by our leftist elites to de-culturalize and homogenize western man. Thus homogenized, we will be without those cultural supports that keep us from living without the all-powerful nanny state.

53 posted on 07/25/2002 6:48:44 AM PDT by quebecois
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To: ZeitgeistSurfer
"...a movement will arise out of europe"

Well...as doubtful as many people think this is, I agree with you completely. The current conflicts in Israel and the recent conflict in Kosovo are harbingers of things to come for Europe. Fasten your seatbelts, we live in interesting times.

54 posted on 07/25/2002 6:52:16 AM PDT by quebecois
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To: Neophyte
"leftists are ready to enter a union even with the devil..to destroy our world"

A very critical point for all to understand: the leftists in the west have been on a century long mission to destroy western culture and western man. They see traditional western culture as an impediment to the socialist, Hillary-style village/socialism. As such, western culture must be deconstructed.

Part of this deconstruction is the relativization of our culture via mass immigration and multiculturalism.

The Muslims have become an unexpected fly in the ointment. They are third worlders...and thus obvious victims of western imperialism and racism...but they cling to a whole mishmash of retrograde social ideals.

In their hatred for the West, the leftists have introduced a movement that embodies everything that they claim to oppose....yet encouraging that movement is critical to their ultimate plans for power.

Oh, what webs we weave...

55 posted on 07/25/2002 6:57:37 AM PDT by quebecois
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To: white trash redneck
Thought provoking article and remarks. Indexed!

Why do so many come for Freedom and then proceed to plow it under?

56 posted on 07/25/2002 7:01:52 AM PDT by yoe
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To: Publius6961
The First Amendment is a live-and-let-live doctrine.
Sounds simple, doesn't it.
To us, yes. It isn't as simple to other people, who have been indoctrinated to believe in secular salvation.

And I think that any group which achieves dominance will tend toward that way of thinking. But Christians can at least be spoken to in terms of tolerance:

"My kingdom is not of this world."
The necessity of uniting a diverse group of former colonies, containing even-more-diverse populations, made tolerance a cardinal vitue to the founders who framed the First Amendment. And so it remains today.

57 posted on 07/25/2002 7:01:54 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: Phillip Augustus
Thank you for your insight on the neo-cons. Personally I think of the neo-cons as the Pilot fish to the Left's shark. Their ancestors pushed for something like "diversity" and now that that shtick is becoming reality it is returning to haunt them. The neo-cons want war against Islam, but after all the "diversity" propaganda the American Eloi can only lower their heads and mutter, "tolerance."
58 posted on 07/25/2002 7:05:48 AM PDT by junta
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To: Ohioan
bttt
59 posted on 07/25/2002 7:07:16 AM PDT by junta
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To: quebecois
Multiculturalism and uncontrolled third world immigration are ploys being undertaken by our leftist elites to de-culturalize and homogenize western man. Thus homogenized, we will be without those cultural supports that keep us from living without the all-powerful nanny state.

There is much truth to what you say, my friend - except that a lot of the nanny state clones don't even know what they're bringing about! I say - don't allow yourself or your family or your friends or your children to be de-culturalized and de-Westernized. There is much of deep and enduring value in Western culture - and in Judeo-Christian values as well. Fight the nanny state. L'esprit intelligent et vrai et libre peut vaincre n'importe quelle force de homogènéisation.

60 posted on 07/25/2002 7:25:01 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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