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To: DoughtyOne; ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton
Your fixation on SSTO is interesting. It has only been in the last ten years that Single Stage to Orbit has moved from the realm of science fiction to the realm of reality. My read, having been involved in the effort at NASA, is that SSTO has limited value even if achievable. The payload delivered by SSTO is fairly miniscule given the size of the launch vehicle. It is extremely vulnerable to a micrometeorite strike and thus would, or should, not stay on orbit in LEO for any appreciable time.

The notion of reusable launch vehicles has huge promise but little backing within NASA. The X-33 program was ambitious and underfunded. It failed in the area of composite tanks but it might have failed elsewhere even with more money. The X-34 solved the composite tank problem, smaller scale, but it was single string in many areas and relied on a Government Furnished Engine(GFE) that was poorly executed. NASA's failure on two Mars probes made them suddenly risk adverse and unwilling to take a chance on the relatively low cost X-34 approach and they cancelled X-34 beacuse the cost of adding redundancy to the avionics systems and likelihood of a further delays in the propulsion system would likely be cost prohibitive.

You nailed the real reason for going to the moon and beyond by citing the explorative nature of the USA. It makes a lot of sense to go to the moon and then beyond. The moon is actually a better space station than the ISS. It gives you a chance to practice things while only three days from the earth as opposed to going to Mars which is at least six months from home. Mars exploration in reality only makes sense when you consider nuclear propulsion, which the greenies are dead against. In fact with two week nights on the moon you need an SP-100 like nuclear generator to make it economically feasible to build a campsite leading to a more permanent lunar infrastructure.

I have long been an advocate of exploring our solar system for my own selfish reasons but we are a long away from having the resolve to do so. My read is that with the war on terrorism that we are farther away than ever.

45 posted on 07/26/2002 9:59:44 AM PDT by Movemout
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To: Movemout
I have a question for you, or anyone else who might be knowledgeable on the subject, and forgive me if the idea sounds whacky - I make no pretensions to engineering expertise.

Is it at all feasible to design an airframe that can handle orbital-type speeds through the upper atmosphere, while using a jet or other turbine-style propulsion system? The reason I ask is I'm just trying to think of ways we can get into space with a minimum of on-board rocket fuel (not that I'm the only one, of course). I figure a maser link with an orbiting spacecraft might be able to provide, or help provide, the necessary energy. What'cha all think? (please, no tomatoes)

46 posted on 07/26/2002 11:19:59 AM PDT by inquest
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To: Movemout
We can resolve the issues you raised if we set our minds to it.  Our shuttle is aging.  Other nations are entering space.  It's time we decide to fish or cut bait.  If we're not going to enter space in a serious manner, then let's close down NASA and get used to relegating ourselves to a nation in decline status.  If we do wish to capture the high ground, then let's get off our asses and do it.  A Manhattan level project is now called for to develop a SSTO space plane.  It's doable.  This is the right time.  It would be good for our nation in a number of different ways, not the least of which would be dominance of the high ground.

We have spent $100s of billions of dollars to come to the place that we can put seven people in space for short periods of time.  When not spent $10 to $20 billion to faciliate thousands being able to enter space?

In the early days I was a strong supporter of NASA.  I wouldn't give you $20 for the whole program these days.

47 posted on 07/26/2002 12:09:49 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Movemout
We don't need ssto to get to space inexpensively. Two stages are fine. The first stage can even be air-breathing and re-usable. The key is to stop looking for esoteric solutions in order to get cost-plus govt contracts. Use some of the stuff we already know how to do, i.e. applied science. Experiment. Get there first. The solar system based economy has the potential to be multiple orders of magnitude larger than earth. The founders will be bigger than all of earth's moguls several times over.
50 posted on 07/26/2002 1:03:19 PM PDT by no-s
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