Objective Individual Combat Weapons System ("No place to hide" weapon)

Heckler & Koch ^

[supercat]

It would fit inside any radio today, and all it would take to get it started is a small C02 container like for a pop gun.

A 12g CO2 cylinder can put out a pretty amazing amount of power, but total energy capacity is rather limitted. I would expect for one of these Zorg-o-matics one would be more interested in energy capacity than power.

[ninenot]

How heavy, what happens when its wet, or dirty?

Weight depends on the weight of the computer techie you have to carry along with the weapon.

Wet/dirty considerations are as follows: 1) do you have the '800' number for tech support? and 2) how long will it take for the support to pick up from 'hold'?

HINT: the tech support number is: 1-888-PLEASEHOLD

[gilor]

Was it Patton that called the M1 "the greatest battle implement ever devised"?

[Shooter 2.5]

Do you mean like this?

[R. Scott]

At lest they didn’t put a bayonet stud on it.
The heavy, bulky and cumbersome US prototype actually has PR pictures with a fixed bayonet – as if the GI could actually use it.

[ninenot]

he got a look of derision from the soldier and the response,'you never get that close'

Was walking through an airport and saw one of the USARNG's holding his -16; told him I preferred the -14 for buttstroking a badguy.

Took the NG at least 10 seconds to recognize what I meant--then he gave me the same look.

In an airport, you're not going to use the 'whizbang' weapon detailed above without a HELL of a lot of civilian casualties.

[LibKill]

I was writing about hitting a target.

Fair enough. I was writing about killing enemies at close to medium range. MOA is great, reliability is even greater.

If this weapon can hit harder, faster and at a longer distance than anything else we have, I don't care how much it weighs.

One forced march might provide a little enlightenment about weight. We have helicopters and troop carriers of all kinds, but a soldier still needs to be able to get around on his feet.

[LibKill]

AK. Not gilt-edged accuracy, but reliable.

Myself I have a stainless Mini-14.

Again, not gilt-edged accuracy, the best I ever got out of it was 2 inches off the bench at 100 yards.

But it fires every time I pull the trigger.

In the final analysis I would rather have an AK than some engineer's dream of accuracy.

[AAABEST]

Somebody's been watching too many "Star Wars" movies.

It looks unbalanced, heavy and awkward. Holding a weapon by the magazine (like the GI in the pic) is a big no-go. Is that how it's supposed to be fired?

That thing is probably buggy as hell too, it looks like a heavy, expensive SA-80 with ground affects or something. I bet it would be out of commision if you dropped it off the top of a duece and a half.

[michigander]

Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW)

[Saturnalia]

Um, from what i have read so far, turbo expanders do not store power, making them not too useful for such things.
Second, you would need a continuous supply of pressurized gases to power the thing, which would not sit well with most people using the things, much less in combat.
Third, a more promising concept involves a battery system that generates power from the movement of the soldier (specifically in the boots). Would offer a link, but have no idea where this would be found.

[RaceBannon]

I helped design one, and with a small tank of air, it can go on for quite some time. The big problem is getting it started! But it will run for a while, long enough to make power for a few hours.

The next problem is miniaturizing it to fit in a wristwatch size device!

[Saturnalia]

I'll take your word for it, but if you could provide some decent links on the subject, I would appreciate it.

[Don Joe]

"Third, a more promising concept involves a battery system that generates power from the movement of the soldier (specifically in the boots)."

Two other ideas that just popped into my head: use a gas-operated generator (pressurize a chamber when a round is fired, and then meter out the stored gas to run a mini-turbine/generator), or, use the "Polaroid SX-70 Solution" -- put a battery in every magazine, and give it enough capacity to run several (10 or more) magazines of ammunition. (The overkill will compensate for reduced output due to age or temperature, and also allow several hasty reloads from stripper clips in the field.)

[archy]

Somebody's been watching too many "Star Wars" movies.

Actually, more likely it was Starship Troopers

. The *Morita pulse rifles* have some serious possibilities. But don't tell anyone from Ordnance about the nuclear rifle grenades they used on the *tankerbugs*, okay?

[Saturnalia]

As for #1, I believe some of that energy is used to chamber the next round.
As for #2, it is so farking obvious it will never happen :D

[archy]

AK. Not gilt-edged accuracy, but reliable. Myself I have a stainless Mini-14. Again, not gilt-edged accuracy, the best I ever got out of it was 2 inches off the bench at 100 yards.

But it fires every time I pull the trigger.

In the final analysis I would rather have an AK than some engineer's dream of accuracy.

Back in the 1970s, the French seriously evaluated the Mini 14 as an intirm 5,56mm rifle for use by their quasi-military Gendarmerie Nationale and Air Force airfield guard force details until production and issue of the FAMAS G1 *Clarion* could catch up. They came to the conclusion that the Mini-14 barrels were too light, the trigger guard was too small, and the stocks poorly designed, and that extractors and firing pins broke under extended use.

Some operating rods failed in the French tests and the matter was taken up with Ruger, who redesigned the op rods of the 181 model and used an improved design in future production.

But I'd still pick up some spare firing pins and extractors if I were using a mini, though the stainless version not then available may be an improvement. Of course I maintain spares for everything I've got, including my AKs.

I'm quite happy with the AK, though I prefer the Finnish and milled receiver RPK versions to the average grunt-issue AKM. And the Kalishnikov-based PSM or *Romak-3* SVD equivalant is quite acceptable in the accuracy department, if fed decent ammunition.

Now if I could just get a belt-fed PK light MG, I'd pick up a sidecar for my motorbike....

-archy-/-

[archy]

The combat efficiency report on the SLR-fn derivitive was even better than the M1 M16(beast had some problems early with jams) at the Battle of Long Tan- 108 vs 5000 in mud pelting rain 24 hrs constant combat-of course the Aussie Govt scrapped these and bought those plastic 5.56mm,at the recent local show the army had its recruitment stand and requisite toys, my Uncle a Buna,Finchafen WW2 and Korean veteren told the nice young soldier you'd split the damn thing if you ever hit anyone over the head with it,he got a look of derision from the soldier and the response,'you never get that close',all my Uncle said was,'Jesus we're in for trouble in the next big one'.

Stories of early production examples of the F88 melting if more than three magazines were fired within a given period were reported, and addressed by a warning letter advising the troops not to use full-chat quite so much. The stories of some of them catching fire or melting to the point of distortion or unservicability are probably exaggerations.

But the F89 LMG is a much better proposition.

[archy]

Looks rather a lot like that big monstrous thing Zorg had in Fifth Element.

The ZF-1? My favourite! Hey, what's the little red button on the bottom of the gun do?

-archy-/-

[MissAmericanPie]

I was wondering how much that had to weigh, looks like you have to be King Kong to handle it poperly, much less carry it for miles.