hurry! change to beretta while you can.
lapd and lasd have an oustanding record with beretta pistols
Posted on 07/31/2002 2:49:32 PM PDT by 45Auto
Edited on 05/24/2003 12:19:22 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Me, too. I am very comfortable shooting both Glocks and various 1911's. Your comments have a lot of merit, especially the part about having to "tweak" the 1911 to make it more reliable (and more accurate). That said, there are now some very nice guns made by outfits like Kimber and Les Baer and others which are very shootable right out of the box. These guns are going to cost around a $1000 and the Glocks run about $600, as you said.
The big advantage of the 1911 to me relates to my being able to tinker with the gun, sometimes to such a degree that I end up building a totally new gun from a bag of parts.
The same cannot be said about the Glock, but then, perhaps it is not necessary (nor desirable) to tinker with the Glock. Being a gun enthusiast and hobbyist, I sometimes lose sight of the much more serious purpose for which these machines were invented: to be used (as Ayoob says) "in the gravest extremes" as a back-up battle gun or for immediate and deadly self defense. In the latter, there is no second place winner, so only one consideration becomes of utmost importance: reliability.
That's why I post these things, not to bash or unduly praise any one type or make or model of gun, but to open a discussion of ways to make sure that the guns we choose for self-protection and the protection of loved ones are up to the task and will work as advertised every time.
Especially for you KLT... the new G33 Sub-Compact in .357!!
I was quenching that night with the funny story and now I can't remember which one I meant... if I remember I'll pass it along!!
There is always the chance it wouldn't be funny without benefit of alcohol... sorry!!
Size shouldn't be a problem for off-duty carry unless you're very small and skinny. I carried a 1911A1 for years in a shoulder holster, and all I needed was a light jacket or suit coat. I carry the P245 in an inside-the-waistband holster that looks like a pager ('scuse me while I take this call) and don't even need a coat.
Apparently this is not the case, per the article. Also, the problem has not been solved. The revised 19 still has problems in individual cases. I would not want to carry this gun as a line officer.
I was told that Mr. Glock is not very receptive to suggestions that his guns need attention. Per the article Glocks' response to the NYPD was very slow and grudging. Such a posture does not give me confidence in the Glock offerings.
On the other hand, both my G17 and G32C have been awesome out of the box, and both were purchased for less than $500 apiece.
I have to relearn the 1911 lesson every year or so. Maybe one day I'll stop poring money down that rat hole.
You would think that folks would notice that the general population owns and shoots many, by multiples, more G19 than NYPD, and they love the pistols. Has any one stop to consider that NY insistance on the ultra heavy trigger spring may be screwing up the slide cycle?
No, you don't. Not when it comes to 1911's anyway.
Apparently this is not the case, per the article. Also, the problem has not been solved. The revised 19 still has problems in individual cases. I would not want to carry this gun as a line officer.
Fine, don't then. That leaves more for the rest of us.
It's worth noting that this is not an 'article' but a rant by a retired officer. We have no way of knowing what axes he has to grind. At the 'source' on prodigy, they reference a 1998 NY Post article as an 'update' that states:
According to an October 1998 NY Post article, Phase Three events had occurred 134 times in 88 guns.
Nobody wants to hear a 'click' when firing, but statistically this is a miniscule number of problems compared to the 10s of thousands of model 19s in use in NYC.
Glock has sold millions of these weapons around the world, yet only NYC has had these particular problems. I would advise potential buyers to avoid the NYC trigger and whatever ammo they are using. Additionally, I would advise buyers to clean and maintain their Glocks according to manufacturers recommendations.
Referring back to my original statement posted above, Glock would not have sold millions of these weapons, if my statement were not true.
I'm inclined to believe the numbers and disinclined to buy into this 'article'. Let's see some serious news articles or links to NYPD studies, one retired cops rant is not conclusive.
I've seen virtually every make and model of handgun fail to fire, jam, misfire, over the years on the range. At tactical classes with students with a broad spectrum of weapons, it's the ones with Glocks and revolvers that always fire and the shooters with Sigs, H&Ks and 1911s that are fumbling with decockers, manual safeties, etc.
Visit the website for Front Sight Acadamy and read their safety reports.
You'll see what happens when ammo not recommended by Glock is used in a .40 Glock. You'll also read about the 2 negligent discharges they've had out of the thousands of students. One with a 1911, the other with a Sig.
Neither could ever happen to any of the thousands of Glocks used there over the years, because the trigger on Glocks won't snag like the 1911 and because they don't have decockers like the Sig.
Eeek! Really! You must be one good shot. People with rifles have a hard time doing this.
If NYPD wants jam free rigs, they should get a 4" 44 magnum.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.