[medved]

At this point in time there is only one remaining halfway rational solution to the palestinian problem and somebody better figure it out pretty quick. The arab states are going to have to be forced to find a place to put the palis. somewhere in the vast expanse of islamic territory, 500 miles or more away from Israel. There is no way in which the Israelis could any longer be asked to accept these people as neighbors.

[A Vast RightWing Conspirator]

Isn't it true that Israel defines itself as 'the Jewish State'? The idea of the 'Jewish State' is a lot more radical than, let's say, calling the U.S. a 'Christian nation'. It's more like having the U.S. define itself as an 'Aryan nation'. There would still be 'minorities' in the U.S., of course. They could even be U.S. citizens, the same way Israel allows a number of Arabs to remain Israeli citizens for as long as the Arabas remain a minority but there would be very strict immigration controls and some board would decide which candidate immigrant was truly white and therefore qualifying for admission in the U.S. I believe Israel has such a mechanism to determine whether someone is a true Jew and therefore entitled to enter the country.

Very, very interesting.

[goldstategop]

Michael Oren is an Israeli Leftist who is still cottoned to Oslo despite the PLO barbarism. What stands out however is his recognition the Palestinians are worse in their behavior towards the Jews than the German Nazis ever were and even he has the prescience to acknowledge the chance of peace with the Palestinians under current circumstances are slim to none. Which means that despite his support for Israel's territorial dismemberment through the misnamed "land for peace" formula, the chances Israel will ever withdraw to the pre 1967 borders continue to dwindle down to nothingness with the passage of time.

[Tuscaloosa Goldfinch]

"For all its anomalies, Israel is at base a healthy society. The reaction of Israelis to civilian casualties, even among their mortal enemies, is similar to that shown by Americans after the accidental bombing of villagers in Afghanistan. But the Palestinians are different."

And that is the problem. It is impossible to understand these people beyond recognizing that their thinking is twisted beyond all normal reason. We could not understand them unless we ourselves were of a mind to strap bombs to our precious children and sent then out to murder and die. We don't think that way.

No negotiation is possible with them, because people who murder their own children think nothing of lying for political advantage. Nothing they say can ever be believed.

[Ancesthntr]

For all its anomalies, Israel is at base a healthy society. The reaction of Israelis to civilian casualties, even among their mortal enemies, is similar to that shown by Americans after the accidental bombing of villagers in Afghanistan. But the Palestinians are different. Though Palestinian spokesmen often seek to justify terror in terms of popular frustration and despair, there is no rational explanation for the outbursts of joy bordering on ecstasy at the dismemberment of innocent children, women, and men. Beyond the controversy over settlements and territory, beyond the bitter conflict over Jerusalem, there is something else at work in the delight displayed by Palestinians over slaughter -- something sick and perhaps even evil.

For all the kudos discretely given SS killers by the regime, Nazi Germany never publicly lionized them, never plastered their pictures on the streets, or openly encouraged children to emulate them. That kind of adoration for mass murderers can only be found, in abundance, among the Palestinians.

They really are sick & evil. Does anyone think that we will see a simply demonstration of this fact, utilizing the facts above, on ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC or NBC? How about in the NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, Time, Newsweek, etc.? And since the answer is obviously "no," what does this say about the morality of those press & media outlets? I'm glad that I no longer watch or subscribe to any of them. They are actually worse than the Pallies because, having been raised in this country, the editors & reporters should have the modicum of morality necessary to point out ALL of the facts, not just those that selectively make Israel look bad.

[Aquinasfan]

For all the kudos discretely given SS killers by the regime, Nazi Germany never publicly lionized them, never plastered their pictures on the streets, or openly encouraged children to emulate them. That kind of adoration for mass murderers can only be found, in abundance, among the Palestinians.

Islam means "submission" and should not be mistaken for Christianity.

[Aquinasfan]

For all the kudos discretely given SS killers by the regime, Nazi Germany never publicly lionized them, never plastered their pictures on the streets, or openly encouraged children to emulate them. That kind of adoration for mass murderers can only be found, in abundance, among the Palestinians.

Islam means "submission" and should not be mistaken for Christianity. May those who equate Islam and Christianity or Islam and Judaism be surrounded with a thousand Mohammedan neighbors.

[dennisw]

ping

[keri]

Ping.

[cmak9]

"Though Palestinian spokesmen often seek to justify terror in terms of popular frustration and despair, there is no rational explanation for the outbursts of joy bordering on ecstasy at the dismemberment of innocent children, women, and men."

Sure there is...it's called Islam. You know, the religion of peace.

[tm22721]

Most Arabs consider Israelis to be their traditional blood enemies and use the Palis as guinea pigs to provoke a war they hope will eventually eradicate the Jews.

What they are forgetting is the 400 nukes aimed squarely at Damascus, Baghdad, and Riyadh.

BUMP

[Tolik]

I think that an issue of Israel as "Jewish State" needs to be properly addressed, because looks like we have some confusion here.

The key point here, as I see it, is Nation Building. Most of the Nations emerged in history based on the basically uniform group of people, united by all that defines a nation: common language, territory, culture, genome, etc. (somebody can provide a better definition if you please). There are minorities in many/most countries now, because there are more nationalities there than countries. Naturally developed "old" countries, like in Europe are of this kind: host nationality constitutes majority or vast majority with some minorities present. France, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland, etc. etc. This natural order includes wars, conquests, assimilations spread over centuries or thousands of years.

More recent developments include empire building on the part of European powers and Russia/Soviet Union, and later their disintegration. It contributed to some mixing of nationalities on one hand, and drawing quite arbitrary borders on another hand. Both are a reason of numerous conflicts just in Africa, for example.

Another type of countries are immigration societies of Americas and Australia. In different proportions they were too based on a large group of people with similar ancestry (even in a broader sense, like white Europeans) mixed with Indians in Latin America, black slaves in South and North America, and newer arrivals with different backgrounds than the original ones. United States used to be the most famous and very unique example of working melting pot.

Now, back to Israel. The difference here that we are witnessing history. We can care less about rise and fall and border change and wars of the past. We learn that as quite abstract knowledge, not much different as math or physics. The history of Israel brought with the hourly wire updates is all too fresh. It is unique in part that the nation consolidates people who lived in Diaspora all over in their ancestral home, but otherwise, its a classic "old" type nation building with additional complication of arbitrary borders drawn by exiting Europeans (UK and France, then UN). It should be then fairly compared to Germany and France, not USA or Canada. Germany is quite German state with 3-d generation residents non-citizens, a thing unheard in USA.

I hope I created less fog than cleared..