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"Ordered liberty," what Americans will soon fight for instead of freedom.
The Orange County Register -- Commentary section ^ | 4 August 2002 | Viet D. Dinh, U.S. Assistant Attorney General

Posted on 08/06/2002 8:05:30 PM PDT by thinktwice

Fundamental to the rule of law is the concept of ordered liberty. The core meaning of that concept, in turn, is profoundly relevant to our current war against terror.

Some have suggested that the actions we have taken to prosecute that war are a threat to liberty; others defend those actions as vital to the preservation of our liberty. I seek today to mediate these opposing viewpoints by exploring the meaning of ordered liberty.

This return to first principles may seem pedantic, but I think it is important at this time of peril for us to take stock of certain basic questions: 1) what is it we are fighting for; 2) who is it we are fighting against; and 3) how are we to wage this fight?

I. For What Are We Fighting? The Concept of Ordered Liberty.

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: freedom; orderedliberty
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U.S Assistant Attorney General Dinh presented these remarks at a District of Columbia Bar Association seminar in Washington, D.C. earlier this summer, he is the chief architect of the USA Patriot Act signed into law last November.

There is much more to this speech, and if what you've already read worries you, I can assure you -- it gets worse. "Oordered liberty," as described by Dihn, signals the end for American freedom.

The Register link may not be available much longer, so I'd appreciate someone posting a permanent link to the speech.

1 posted on 08/06/2002 8:05:30 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: thinktwice
Thesis meets anti-thesis and results in the synthesis.

I dream the body Dialectic!
2 posted on 08/06/2002 8:08:19 PM PDT by Abcdefg
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To: Abcdefg
Thesis meets anti-thesis and results in the synthesis.

"Dialectic materialism" -- Look it up! It's the philosophy behind communism.

3 posted on 08/06/2002 8:13:12 PM PDT by thinktwice
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To: thinktwice
Bingo!
4 posted on 08/06/2002 8:13:54 PM PDT by Abcdefg
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To: thinktwice
Translation: You have to give up those things which protect you from us, in order for us to protect you from them.
5 posted on 08/06/2002 8:33:20 PM PDT by OHelix
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To: OHelix
I've got a bumbersticker on the back of my truck that states:

"I'll protect and serve myself thank you very much"

I pretty much feel the same way about the scum in DC and their desire to "protect me from them".

6 posted on 08/06/2002 8:40:27 PM PDT by bat-boy
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To: bat-boy
Wasn't there something in scripture about people promising peace and safety?
7 posted on 08/06/2002 8:43:38 PM PDT by OHelix
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To: thinktwice
We have Hegel's dialectical materialism. And yet at times we also have Heideggerian ontology: Everything depends on what the meaning of "is" is...
8 posted on 08/06/2002 8:47:29 PM PDT by Fraulein
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To: thinktwice
Pretty good speech!
Here are some quotes from it...

"I think Edmund Burke puts it best: "The only liberty I mean is a liberty connected with order; that not only exists along with order and virtue, but which cannot exist at all without them." In other words, ordered liberty. ...

each and every person detained arising from our investigation into 9/11 has been detained with an individualized predicate - a criminal charge, an immigration violation or a judicially issued material witness warrant. We do not engage in preventive detention. ...

The attorney general's charge to the Department after 9/11 was simple: Think outside the box, but never outside of the Constitution. On the walls of the Department of Justice are inscribed the following words: "Where law ends tyranny begins." John Locke wrote that "the end of law is not to abolish or restrain but to preserve and enlarge freedom." "

9 posted on 08/06/2002 8:54:10 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: thinktwice
"Dialectic materialism" -- Look it up! It's the philosophy behind communism.-thinktwice

Quite right and I am VERY, VERY, VERY surprised that a Freeper doesn't know this.

It is just an example of a dumbing down school system, private as well as public I am sorry to say.

BUT THAT SAID, most of us are adults and should know this fact by now.

Maybe they have been stranded on an island since they were a child. I don't really know.

Educating these people to political realities and their implications upon the World for the last 213 years seems to be vital for they seem to be caught up in the moment and can't think about the bigger picture and the history that has led us to this day.

213 years ago was the start of the French Coup by the Jacobians. The World has never been the same.

The Russian Bolos still say that little debacle was their inspiration for their Coup.

Why do the Comunists/Socialists/Corporate Socialists(enlisting big business in partnership with the government-sound familiar?) CELEBRATE MAY DAY????

It was on that day in 1776 that the Bavarian Illuminati formed and started the numerous plots to overthrow EVERY Kingdom in Europe.

Regards from a bunker somewhere in Alaska,
CATO

10 posted on 08/06/2002 9:01:41 PM PDT by Cato
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To: thinktwice
It's intersting that Dinh uses the Edmund Burke "liberty connected with order" quote to try to support his position.

Another - perhaps more relevant - Burke quote is:

Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.

-- Edmund Burke, On the Sublime and Beautiful

11 posted on 08/06/2002 9:16:23 PM PDT by j271
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To: thinktwice
A rebuttal from the same paper:

Post-9/11 federal intentions chip away at Constitution

12 posted on 08/06/2002 9:19:27 PM PDT by jordan8
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To: Cato
There is also a near-omni-cultural, if not omni-cultural, atrological/pagan/occultic significance to May Day.
13 posted on 08/06/2002 9:44:36 PM PDT by OHelix
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To: thinktwice
Bump for later.
14 posted on 08/06/2002 9:55:22 PM PDT by Valin
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To: Valin
http://www.ocregister.com/commentary/columns/others/dinh80402.shtml
15 posted on 08/06/2002 10:01:09 PM PDT by robotech
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To: thinktwice
I believe the "dialectic" belongs to Hegel. "Dialectic materialism" certainly belongs to Marx.

The "Permanent Things" that are above and impervious to the dialectic? Well, that belongs to Russell Kirk. Kirk was right. Dinh is right. No order, no liberty.

Good column.

16 posted on 08/06/2002 10:44:19 PM PDT by HumanaeVitae
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To: mrsmith
Your "Pretty good speech!" begins with the words ...

Fundamental to the rule of law is the concept of ordered liberty.

That is a bad premise, and it leads Dinh to several dialectic and faulty conclusions that seriously threaten American freedom as we know it.

17 posted on 08/07/2002 7:00:14 AM PDT by thinktwice
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To: robotech
Robotech has provided what looks like a sound link to the speech ...

Link to speech is at ...

http://www.ocregister.com/commentary/columns/others/dinh80402.shtml

Thank you, robotech.

18 posted on 08/07/2002 7:09:58 AM PDT by thinktwice
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To: HumanaeVitae
No order, no liberty.

The mainland China population has about the best order any governmemt can provide, and all those Chinese people have the liberty to ... ride bicycles?

19 posted on 08/07/2002 7:18:35 AM PDT by thinktwice
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To: thinktwice
In post 17 I wrote about a bad premise in Dinh's opening sentience, where he said ...

Fundamental to the rule of law is the concept of ordered liberty.

To contrast that, a good premise upon which the U.S. Constitution is based and that which will insure the greatest degree of individual freedom within a free nation, is ...

Fundamental to the rule of law is the concept of ordered government.

20 posted on 08/07/2002 7:40:00 AM PDT by thinktwice
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