Agness, Oregon Residents receive fire evacuation warning

Oregon Live/ AP ^ | JEFF BARNARD | JEFF BARNARD

[EBUCK]

“There’s no question after this summer’s fires that we need a new paradigm for managing our national forests,” said Hegreberg. “We’ve got to find a socially acceptable way of getting these fuels out of the forest. We have a saying, that in the inland West, trees will either leave on a log truck or as smoke.”
Hegreberg added that modern logging is easier on the land. And timber companies, he said, can market the slash and small trees that are taken from the forests.
“Why not put people to work?” Hegreberg asked.

Indeed, why not put the loggers to work. Wouldn't cost the taxpayer a dime and Oregon would have an economy again.

Make the rules clear on what they can and cannot take, leaving lroom for lawsuits if the timber company gets out of line and viola, problem solved.

EBUCK

[Grampa Dave]

Oregon has the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

If they allowed just logging of the trees killed in these fires, that would put thousands of men back to work in economic depressed areas.

There is a real need for that wood if it is harvested in a year or so.

The eco economic terrorists don't want a single board foot of timber ever removed from any national forest or state forest. That is their goal!

So, since there is no controlling legal authority over the Club Sierras, ONRC's and other al Qaeda Tree huggers, nothing will be done until they are removed from the unelected power they have in Oregon.

[madfly]

BTTT

[EBUCK]

The power they have tangibly is in the ESA and various other viral concoctions. Exercised thru lawsuits etc.. I'm thinking that the wildfires are going to tip the balance in a favor a bit.

The intangible power they have is in the influence thay have to sway public opinion. That, we are going to have to tip in our favor without the bennifit of political backing. It's goin to have to come from local folks talking to local folks about local issues. I received E-Mail from Carry_Okie, who's in Utah right now doing just that. We can all take lessons from that man.

EBUCK

[cake_crumb]

"Make the rules clear on what they can and cannot take, leaving lroom for lawsuits if the timber company gets out of line and viola, problem solved."

Ah, but you forget : loggers are EEEEEVEEEEEEL.

Also, there are stringent rules about what loggers can and cannot take, especially in state forests. The more certifications you have, and the more experience, makes it more likely you'll get one of these Parks jobs. Due to previous (pre-environazi) timber management practices, these are the healthiest (in the East, anyway) most prime timber...and Parks expects it to stay that way. Heaven help the logger who leaves tops, hung trees and other such debris behind. The mills contracint to buy the logs are liable for the damage and have to pay for the cleanup. And the mill will be inlikely to land another contract.

The article, in general, stuck me as a pro-burn, anti thinning/management article...maybe it's because I've had four hours sleep aout of the last 36, and my reading comprehension isn't up to par. Guess I'll go back and take another gander at it.

[EBUCK]

I didn't think it was that bad. I got the impression that it was touting the managment practice of mechanical thinning, and the only way to fund that is to let logging companies pay for the oportunity to do it.

EBUCK

[knak]

Thanks for the ping. I really think all the fires up here are started from carelessness. Shoot, my neighbor (please) starts fires every summer! She's an idiot. Seriously though. We have plane crashes every other day that start fires, lightning, cigarettes, fireworks etc... 24 hour days of sunshine tends to dry out things a bit.

[Species8472]

"What's going on up yonder folks?"

I will try to keep you updated on the Alaska situation. I have been in the fire service 30 years and am currently the Chief of a small rural department south of Anchorage. It has been a bad fire year here. We have had warm, dry weather since spring and are far below precipatition norms for this time of year. About 1/3 of my department are out on various wildland operations at this time. Many of the fires up here are so remote that they are virtually inaccessable. To properly and safely fight them would take more personnel than are avalible in the entire USA. The policy is to let them burn until they threaten populated areas. Most of the fires up north near the arctic circle are tundra fires, burning surface duff and small black spruce. The areas recover quickly, and the trees are rarely killed.

Here in southcentral it is a different matter. The last 10 years has seen a severe spruce beetle infestation that has left hundreds of thousands of acres of standing dead spruce that is unbeliveably flammable. All it take is one idiot with a cigarette or bottle rocket to start a mass conflagration. Do a google search on the "Millers Reach" fire. Our operations here are based on a fast attack stratagy to identify and mitigate burns before they get out of control. We are also enforcing an area wide burn ban on all open fires. Municipalities have instuted brush and dead tree removal programs on their lands. Federal and state lands are another problem however, The D@mn greenies fight us at every turn to keep us from logging the stands of dead spruce.

My community stands in the middle of many square miles of dead spruce while the local greenies sit around, smoke dope and fire off lawsuits every time someone comes up with a mitigation plan that would dare touch one of their precious dead trees! I have very little understanding how a forest of dead spruce trees are worth more that our homes and businesses. Makes me so mad I could almost kill....

We continue the fight

[WaterDragon]

I've had to keep sending articles about the fires to family and friends across the country. I learned yesterday they thought all the fires were probably completely controlled now!

[EBUCK]

Many of the fires up here are so remote that they are virtually inaccessable. To properly and safely fight them would take more personnel than are avalible in the entire USA. The policy is to let them burn until they threaten populated areas.

Ah, I got something right for a change (re. my #32) someone call my wife and verify it!

Dead trees support "vast numbers" of "rare" forms of wildlife dontcha know? And there are pleanty of humans to go around, what's a few human lives and their properties compared to the cathedral that is the forest? /sarcasm

We understand your plight Species, keep fighting the good fight!!

EBUCK

[knak]

Nice to know an AK firefighter is a freeper. The Miller's Reach fire was "to close to home" for me. We live in Meadow Lakes and have a wood shingled 20 year old roof. I can't tell you how many times I went up there to water it. Or how many burning spruce embers landed on top of my cars. That was scary.

We finally decided to make a trip to the grocery store one day, and saw so many neighbors coming out of the back roads with their boats, 4-wheelers, snow machines and furniture, we went back home. Anyway they had been told to evacuate near a few of the lakes around here but not our side of the road.

It was a very sad day when we drove through Big Lake and saw all the signs thanking the fire fighters for trying to save their homes. I cried. Thanks for being there!

kelly in Alaska

[farmfriend]

Wonder how long it's gonna take the envirals to recover

Let's pray they never recover.

[farmfriend]

Maybe you can post about the out of control fire by San Diego.

That's closer to Ernie, maybe he has some info on it.

Bump.

[Grampa Dave]

Thanks for your first hand report. I had wondered where you were, and now we know! This part of your remarks need to be reposted:

Municipalities have instuted brush and dead tree removal programs on their lands. Federal and state lands are another problem however, The D@mn greenies fight us at every turn to keep us from logging the stands of dead spruce.

My community stands in the middle of many square miles of dead spruce while the local greenies sit around, smoke dope and fire off lawsuits every time someone comes up with a mitigation plan that would dare touch one of their precious dead trees! I have very little understanding how a forest of dead spruce trees are worth more that our homes and businesses. ============================================================

Unfortunately the answer to your question is the same as down here in the lower 48. Those dead trees represent the ultimate Rural Cleansing Tool of the al Qaeda Tree Hugging Green Jihadists who hate humans living in the country areas.

After a few years, those dead trees are now tinder boxes waiting to burn in an uncontrollable fashion. If that happens, you and your towns people could be rural cleansed by another out of control fire.

This is why they fight the removal of dead trees all over America.

Stay safe!

[Species8472]

I had both personnel and equipment from my department at Millers Reach. What a sad situation. I was up there a couple of weeks ago and the brush has grown in to the point where it looks like its ready to burn again.

Here is what I advise people with wood shake roofs to do:

Run a length of 3/4 inch PVC pipe along the ridgeline of the roof and install a standard garden sprinkler every 20 feet or so to get good coverage of your entire roof. Put a hose connection on the other end within reach of the ground. Turn it on and soak the roof at any rumor of wildfire.

Stay safe!

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

96 or 97 was a horrible fire year in South Central. The Big Lake fire rolled across the Parks Highway and the Kenai Peninsula fire smoked all of Anchorage.

[Granof8]

CHETCO RIVER HOMEOWNER PREPARE FOR THREAT
(from Curry Coastal Pilot)
Published: August 7, 2002

By Susan Schell
Pilot Staff Writer

Margaret Fox stood in front of her two-story wooden house wearing a pair of heavy leather gloves. In front of her was a waist-high pile of tree limbs and leaves. Her next-door neighbor, Lonny Reneman, was on the roof cutting tree limbs off with a limb saw.

"We're trying to get as much as we can away from the building," Fox said.

"(Reneman) is helping me clear away some of the limbs and debris."

Fox's home sits on the edge of the Wilderness Retreat area near the Chetco River on High Prairie Road, close to the mountains where fires rage just out of sight.

On Monday, the sky was free from the pall of smoke that's been hanging over the Brookings-Harbor area for the past week. The serenity of the valley masked the scene being played out just over the ridge.

The only hint that something was amiss was the number of forest service trucks, Humvees and tractors mounted on wide-bed trailers that occasionally rumbled by.

"They're working on the fire trails out there," Fox said.

"Everybody's on (fire) alert, but we haven't been evacuated yet."

Fox said she has been cutting trees and brush down near her house for the past week. "The whole community is helping out. The kids have been real troopers; they've been a great help. Clay and Sandra Brugger out at the Chetco Inn loaned us a limb saw. They even loaned chain saws to the fire crews."

Fox pointed out that when the fire initially broke out, area residents had trouble getting correct information on what to do.

"Then Sheriff Kent Owens came up and told everyone what was going on. Before Kent came up, we got no information from anyone, just a lot of rumors flying around. But since Owens came up, we've been informed.

"Now the sheriffs are coming through every day. They don't knock on people's doors, but they make themselves visible so if anyone has any questions they're there to answer them."

Reneman said, "They said they would try to give us 72 hours notice if we had to evacuate.

"But they also said to be aware that we could get a knock on the door in the middle of the night to get out in 30 minutes.

"The situation can change so fast. The wind could come up and the fire could jump the fire lines. I have heard that (the fire) is about three air-miles away from us."

Fox said, "I am impressed with the Coos Curry Forest Patrol. They have been so great in taking charge of the defense of private property."

The remote location of the Wilderness Retreat makes it particularly vulnerable to the threat of fire, as the homes do not have access to community facilities like electricity and phone service. Fox said some homes are solar powered; the rest are powered by generators.

Like many of her neighbors, Fox has transported some of her valuable items to Brookings to store until the threat is over.

"People in town have volunteered to store things in their homes for us," she said.

"If the fire gets closer, I'll start taking more things down, but right now I'm concentrating on saving the building. I've never been this close to a fire before."

Reneman agreed. "The Silver Lake and the Mt. Emily fires never came this close."

Fox moved up the North Bank from downtown Brookings in 1988.

"We wanted to be in town until my daughter graduated from high school. After her graduation, we wanted the mystique of living in the wilderness."

[Granof8]

COUNTY OFFICIALS DECLARE STATE OF EMERGENCY
Curry Coastal Pilot
Published: August 7, 2002

By Bill Lundquist
Pilot Staff Writer

A declaration of a state of emergency was requested of the governor Monday by the Curry County commissioners, while the top fire official said his defensive line has a 40 percent chance of holding.

The commissioners were briefed Monday by fire, law enforcement and Red Cross officials, who also spoke to about 100 residents that night at a Brookings meeting.

They held a similar public briefing Tuesday night in Gold Beach, and have scheduled one for 7 p.m. tonight (Aug. 7) at the Agness Community Building.

Incident Commander Kim Martin is heading the Great Basin National Incident Management Team, which is fighting the west side of the Florence fire.

He said the defensive fire line will be established first to protect Agness, and the Wilderness Retreat community in the Chetco River valley.

Both are being threatened by the 235,000-acre Florence fire burning in the Kalmiopsis Wilderness. It is expected to join the smaller Sour Biscuit fire in the south Kalmiopsis.

Martin said as of Monday afternoon, the Florence fire was about 14 nautical miles from human habitation in the Chetco Valley.

He was also worried about a push the fire was making on its northern frontier toward the Rogue River.

Given the terrain and weather conditions, said Martin, he does not want the fire spreading down the river valleys in Curry County.

With temperatures and winds rising, however, Martin was frankly honest about the chances of stopping the fire.

Using a forest service map at both meetings, Martin showed the current borders of the fire in red.

He said not everything within the red boundary has been consumed, but it is a rough outline of the fire.

Marked on the map in green, several miles west of the fire boundary, is a proposed control line stretching from the Rogue River into California.

Martin said the control line will utilize some existing forest service roads. Brush will be cleared off the roads, and for 30 feet on each side.

The first segments of the line are being constructed to protect Agness on the Rogue River and Wilderness Retreat on the Chetco River.

Martin said the Agness segment could be completed in two days. When wind conditions are favorable, firefighters will then introduce fire on the ground to burn back to the Florence fire and deny it fuel.

He wanted citizens to understand they would be seeing smoke from the back-burn closer than what they have seen from the forest fires so far.

He said the land between the "green line" and the fire boundary will have to be sacrificed, but it is the only chance his crew has of stopping the westward progress of the fire.

When asked if the line will actually hold the fire, Martin said there is about a 40 percent chance of success on the Agness and Wilderness Retreat segments.

He said the middle segments of the line are being ignored now while all efforts go to the north and south.

Whether those segments can be built before the fire advances too far west all depends on the weather, said Martin.

He said the fire will probably go beyond the line in some places, and be held in others.

The top priority, said Martin, is human lives, both of firefighters and the public. Property has to take second place.

He said firefighters are not being put directly on the fire boundary yet.

"It's not worth putting people at risk," he said.

Martin's main resources, as of Monday, consisted of 23 20-person fire crews, 16 bulldozers, and five helicopters.

Unfortunately, only one of the helicopters is a big Sikorsky that can dump 2,000 to 3,000 gallons of water on the fire at a time.

He said fixed-wing tankers would not be successful, given the terrain, against the Florence fire. Large helicopters, which can target specific hot spots, would be much more useful.

Martin is expecting 10 more fire crews, however. He said some are from Canada, and are experiencing fighting fires in vertical terrain for the first time.

Fire headquarters is now at the Event Center on the Beach in Gold Beach, which has caused the cancellation of all other events there for the duration of the fire.

Martin said a heliport will be established in the South county, too, probably at Gardner Ranch. A ground camp may be established at Freeman Ranch.

Martin said resources are being split equally between the North and South county.

In the commissioners briefing, Commissioner Lucie La Bonté encouraged Martin to listen to local experts who have dealt with past fires in Curry County.

Martin said his crew is utilizing local resources and finding them very useful.

Capt. Mark Metcalf spoke to the commissioners on behalf of Sheriff Kent Owens, who was on his way to Agness to fly the fire line.

Metcalf said, "As local officials, we were brought into the inner circle. We have a briefing every afternoon. We're kept in the loop."

Commissioner Rachelle Schaaf said she had been told the columns of smoke and ash were making their own weather, and collapsing under their own weight, spreading the fire.

"It's still plume-dominated," said Martin. He said that was the problem on the north boundary.

The massive firefighting effort has crossed all jurisdictional lines. Dennis Sifford said he is representing both the Douglas and Coos Forest Protection Associations, as well as the Oregon Department of Forestry, on the fire.

"I feel good about what they are doing here," he said of Martin's crew and control-line strategy.

"God willing," said Sifford, "We'll stop this thing at this line."

Curry County Emergency Services Coordinator Mike Murphy said he has been working with Curry County Fire Chief Bill Sharp to identify exactly where people who might be threatened by the fire are living.

Commissioner Marlyn Schafer said County Assessor Jim Kolen and County Clerk Reneé Kolen are working to identify structures within the green line.

The commissioners said those wishing to donate resources during the emergency may call a special line at their office at (541) 247-3272.

Chip Weinert, in charge of the resource management line for the commissioners, said about 60 people have called in so far.

They have offered space for RVs, rooms for people, pets or possessions, stock trailers, garages and more.

The commissioners hope to match the resources of citizens with those people in need in case of evacuation.

After being briefed on the situation, the commissioners voted quickly and unanimously to request the governor declare a state of emergency in Curry County, and to send all aid requested.

The resolution also asked the governor to request additional assistance from the president, if needed.

Martin gave much the same presentation Monday night at Azalea Middle School in Brookings.

He said this was his sixth large fire assignment this year.

"This is a very large fire," he told the audience. "This fire is going to be a long-duration fire. It's very erratic, very dangerous. At this point, we're not going to put people in harm's way."

He assured the crowd, however, "We like to fight fire aggressively."

Martin said his crew had been successful fighting five of its last six fires. One had to be turned over to another crew.

He warned people, however, "This one we're not going to put out."

He said nature would have to do that, while his crew fought to protect human life.

Martin said there had been some "armchair quarterbacking" about the fire not being attacked aggressively enough, early enough.

"All the Western states are experiencing extreme fire danger," he said. "There are a lot of fires demanding a lot of resources."

Martin said it might be difficult for those threatened by the fire to deal with, but fire-fighting priorities are set on a national scope.

He said his crew finished with another big fire, rested for three days, and came straight to Gold Beach.

Other similar "Type 1" crews, he said, were engaged with the eastern side of the fire, which was four miles away from Selma in the Illinois Valley.

While all this was going on, he said, "All the local fire suppression agencies were doing their best to suppress fires."

Local officials with the U.S. Forest Service also addressed audience concerns.

Jerry Darbyshire said the forest service hasn't seen anything unusual yet as far as wild animals being displaced by the fire. He said there is a lot of area in the forests for animals to disperse.

As for building roads into the Kalmiopsis Wilderness to give firefighters quicker access in the future, Darbyshire said the Wilderness Act of 1964 prohibits road-building.

[Granof8]

Florence and Biscuit fires have now joined. We will be hearing only about the Florence fire which stretches from Agness, Oregon to Del Norte County, California.

[Species8472]

Here is an interesting link to the NOAA Interactive Satellite fire detector and viewer. It's mostly in real time!

NOAA Fire Detection Program