In Africa, new enemy of graft

Christian Science Monitor ^ | Thursday, August 8, 2002 | By Nicole Itano | Special to The Christian Science Monitor

[JohnHuang2]

LUSAKA, ZAMBIA - At the Jordan Inn, a small cafe in a dusty settlement 10 miles outside Lusaka, nearly everyone has strong feelings about Zambia's former President Frederick Chiluba.

"He's a thief," shouts Lameck Make, a local butcher. "He should go to jail."

"We should make an example of him," chimes the cafe's patron, Valentine Munyake.

Few Zambians have good things to say about Mr. Chiluba, who is accused of stealing millions of dollars from the public coffers. Instead, they're cheering on the anticorruption campaign of the country's new president, Levy Manawasa.

In a bold political move, Mr. Manawasa – hand-picked by Chiluba – has turned his sights on his predecessor and other former officials. In doing so, Zambia – considered one of the world's more corrupt countries by Transparency International – may emerge as a model for how African countries can clean house, and win aid money.

The case stands to be a first test for a continent that just weeks ago, at the launch of its new pan-African body, the African Union, pledged to promote good governance in order to attract Western investment.

"Zambia has set an example here," says Dipak Patel, an opposition member of Parliament and former member of Chiluba's cabinet who, along with three others, was recently acquitted of defaming the former president. "The image of Africa is that it's corrupt, corrupt, corrupt. Here in Zambia we're doing something about it."

Chiluba, who denies all the charges against him, swept to power in 1991 after the country's first multiparty elections, ending the 27-year reign of the country's independence hero, Kenneth Kaunda. Chiluba's election was cheered as the beginning of a new era of multiparty democracy and free-market economics. But over time his party, the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD), fractured as many members left, alleging corruption.

Last year, after Chiluba unsuccessfully tried to alter Zambia's Constitution to allow himself a third term in office, he picked Manawasa – a former vice president who quit the government in 1994 over concerns about corruption – to be his successor.

Observers say that Chiluba thought Manawasa was distant enough from the previous administration to appeal to voters, but close enough to be controlled by Chiluba.

Manawasa won the December election – now being contested in court – squeaking by a field of 10 candidates crowded with new parties headed by former MMD members. (Manawasa is accused of rigging the election, a charge he denies. Most observers say the charges against him are unfounded.)

But Manawasa has not become Chiluba's puppet. In fact, observers say Manawasa has used the anticorruption campaign to unite opponents and shore up his base of support.

In an unprecedented speech before parliament on June 11, Manawasa accused the former government of using a secret bank account to siphon millions of dollars to Chiluba's family and members of his administration. He also said that Chiluba had paid $20.5 million to a Congolese businessman for weapons that never materialized.

Much of the evidence was unearthed by the legal team defending Mr. Patel and his three co- defendants. Key to their case was evidence of the secret account, which they learned about from a series of anonymous brown envelopes filled with copies of bank statements and receipts left on the defendants' doorsteps.

Since Manawasa's speech, several high-ranking government officials, including Zambia's Chief Justice and foreign minister, have resigned in disgrace.

Chiluba himself is currently fighting to maintain his presidential immunity through the courts. The court is due to decide on Aug. 16 whether Parliament exceeded its authority by revoking it. If the court rules against Chiluba, a full investigation will be launched and a criminal trial will likely result.

Manawasa's willingness to take on corruption has improved his reputation in the country. Less than a third of voters supported him in the last election.

"He's good. We like him because he's dealing with corruption," says Violet Mtonga, as she hangs clothes at her home next door to the Jordan Inn.

The president has earned a grudging respect even among members of citizens groups who say that the MMD rigged Manawasa's victory.

Still, many say that they worry the new president will not have the political will to carry the campaign to its end. Manawasa says that he will pardon Chiluba if he returns what he stole. This has outraged many in civil society.

"I think he needs to be caged," says Bishop Paul Mususu, director of the Evangelical Fellowship of Zambia and a prominent civil society leader. "Both as an example to others that as a country we will not accept this, and to show that no one is above the law."

Zambia is not the only southern African country grappling with a long-time leader accused of corruption. In Zimbabwe, President Robert Mugabe continued his 22-year reign in March with an election victory that most say was rigged.

But Zambia is the only country that has successfully blocked such a leader from staying in power, and threatened to hold him accountable for his actions while in office.

Bishop Mususu says Zambia's success is due largely to pressure from its civil society. Already, civil leaders from neighboring Malawi have come to ask for advice on how to defeat their own president's attempt for a third term.

For his part, Manawasa says that if he's found guilty of election rigging, he will respect the ruling of the courts.

"The most important thing is that the process of the law takes it course and that we start with a clean slate," says Emily Sikazwe chairperson, of Women for Change, a local group that is outspoken on the corruption issue.

[LarryLied]

Interesting isn't it? DNC big-shot Maurice Tempelsman gave $20,000 to the American traitor Ron Dellums. Everything is cool. Tempelsman's man has the inside track to classified intelligence.

Then Dellums is forced out for his betrayal of America. McKinney is now on the committee.But she says no to Tempelsman. She isn't going to let him rape Africa (or,omore likely, she was a bigger cut of the action).

And we know what is happening to her...

So why isn't the IFC posting thread and thread about how Barbara Lee (D-CA) should be defeated in herprimary?

She was Dellum's chief of staff. She went to Grenada and gave a classified congressional report to the Soviets via Castro. Lee was co-chair with Angela Davis of a committee set up by the Communist Party USA.

But Tempelsman likes Lee, right? She helped Maurice and the Kennedys when Cuban troops were propping up their friends in the communist government of Angola.

[Catspaw]

Then Dellums is forced out for his betrayal of America. McKinney is now on the committee.But she says no to Tempelsman. She isn't going to let him rape Africa (or,omore likely, she was a bigger cut of the action).

And we know what is happening to her...

Your honeybunch Cynthia McKinney and her buddy, Louis Farrakhan support Rober Mugabe, LL/Voegelin, and you know it. In fact, I posted the information about McKinney's support of Mugabe to you, but you've ignored it--why is that, LL/Voegelin?

Your poor St. Cynthia.  BTW, the photo credit on the Final Call piece is one Eric Ture Muhammad, son of Stokley Carmichael.  Cuddling with commies again, LL/Voegelin?

ZIMBABWE DEMOCRACY AND ECONOMIC RECOVERY ACT
OF 2001

 

(Extensions of Remarks - December 05, 2001)

SPEECH OF HON.
CYNTHIA A. McKINNEY OF GEORGIA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Tuesday, December 4, 2001

* Ms. McKINNEY. Mr. Speaker, at the international Relations Committee meeting of November 28, 2001, which considered the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001, I asked a question of my colleagues who were vociferously supporting this misdirected piece of legislation: ``Can anyone explain how the people in question who now have the land in question in Zimbabwe got title to the land?''

* My query was met with a deafening silence. Those who knew did not want to admit the truth and those who didn't know should have known--that the land was stolen from its indigenous peoples through the British South Africa Company and any ``titles'' to it were illegal and invalid. Whatever the reason for their silence, the answer to this question is the unspoken but real reason for why the United States Congress is now concentrating its time and resources on squeezing an economically-devastated African state under the hypocritical guise of providing a ``transition to democracy.''

* Zimbabwe is Africa's second-longest stable democracy. It is multi-party. It had elections last year where the opposition, Movement for Democratic Change, won over 50 seats in the parliament. It has an opposition press which vigorously criticizes the government and governing party. It has an independent judiciary which issues decisions contrary to the wishes of the governing party. Zimbabwe is not without troubles, but neither is the United States. I have not heard anyone proposing a United States Democracy Act following last year's Presidential electoral debacle. And if a foreign country were to pass legislation calling for a United States Democracy Act which provided funding for United States opposition parties under the fig leaf of ``Voter Education,'' this body and this country would not stand for it.

* There are many de jure and de facto one-party states in the world which are the recipients of support of the United States government. They are not the subject of Congressional legislative sanctions. To any honest observer, Zimbabwe's sin is that it has taken the position to right a wrong, whose resolution has been too long overdue--to return its land to its people. The Zimbabwean government has said that a situation where 2 percent of the population owns 85 percent of the best land is untenable. Those who presently own more than one farm will no longer be able to do so.

* When we get right down to it, this legislation is nothing more than a formal declaration of United States complicity in a program to maintain white-skin privilege. We can call it an ``incentives'' bill, but that does not change its essential ``sanctions'' nature. It is racist and against the interests of the masses of Zimbabweans. In the long-run the Zimbabwe Democracy Act will work against the United States having a mutually beneficial relationship with Africa.

###

Farrakhan:

Farrakhan tells CBC:
Black lawmakers must be free

 
CAPITOL HILL (FinalCall.com)--Fresh on the heels of his peace mission overseas and having just briefed Assistant Secretary of State William Burns on his mission, the leader of the Nation of Islam July 23 reported to his own community through its elected representatives of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC).

Invited by the "dean" of the CBC, Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan told the lawmakers of the mission’s goals—to stop a war against Iraq and quell the violence among Palestinians and Israelis—and that the U.S. media had miscast his words in Iraq. He said he had briefed Mr. Burns via phone, but would submit a more detailed report in writing. He also gave views on some domestic issues.

The Minister also expressed support for embattled Georgia Democrat Cynthia McKinney, who faces a stiff challenge in an upcoming August primary.

"I want to say to all of you that you might think that just because you’re an individual that you don’t have weight," he said. "But God has never sent a team to do His work. He sends one man and anoints that man and backs that man with His power.

"And that’s why we love Jesus," Min. Farrakhan continued. "He was one man but he had disciples. Moses was one man but he had Aaron and he had disciples. If you feel that you are right and you are with God and God is with you, never, never compromise what is right for any position that makes you comfortable. Your real comfort has never been in comfort; your real comfort lies in the fact that you know that you are in the bosom of a mighty God and shadowed under his wings. With that kind of faith, we went forward" on the mission, he reported.

During the two-hour session, the Minister offered experiences from each of the nations visited on his June 20-July 17 Peace Mission—including the denial of entry into Israel and the lackluster participation from Blacks in the Diaspora at the recent birth of the African Union in South Africa.

He said Israel took the position of the United Kingdom, which has denied him travel to that area since 1986. Speaking frankly, he told the legislators that President Bush should be honest with the American people about why hatred exists in the world for the United States of America, not for the American people but for the policies of the government.

He explained that his delegation heard Arab and Muslim leaders express opposition to an attack on Iraq, regardless of how they felt about Saddam Hussein.

"My effort was to encourage [Arab and Muslim governments] to speak to America and the administration with one voice," he said. "When I started on this assignment, it was as if I was singing a solo. I didn’t want to sing a solo, I wanted to generate a chorus.

"I say again that the mission indeed was a success because now the whole Arab and Muslim world is speaking to our government and the president that they don’t want any bombing of Iraq," he said.

He urged the CBC to hold a hearing on the question of whether or not the United States should attack Iraq, adding that he will call for town hall meetings in various cities on the issue.

Min. Farrakhan’s most passionate remarks came when he discussed the events in Zimbabwe where President Robert Mugabe is in a battle with Western governments over his policy of seizing arable land—which overwhelmingly is in the hands of White farmers—and giving it to landless Black war veterans.

"Whenever Whites say that a Black man is not good for his people, not good for his government and you get sources of information that are not righteous, the wise thing for us to do is to get on a plane and go there … get on the ground and see and then come back and report to your people," the Minister advised.

"You must never be a rubber stamp for the enemies of the liberation of our people because it looks good. It does not look good," he said.

By being on the ground, Min. Farrakhan said he saw the horror of the condition of the southern African people and that land question is the question of today and tomorrow in Africa.

"If that issue is not dealt with properly, I’m telling you it is going to precipitate race war," he said, adding that Whites got the land by taking it by force. When a war of liberation is fought, it is to liberate the land so the resources of the land can accrue to the owners of the land, he said.

Min. Farrakhan added that just as Zimbabwe’s freedom fighters were about to be victorious, they were called to London for peace talks and the British asked them to buy back the land. Ultimately, an agreement was reached with London and the U.S. to pay for land to be repurchased, but after a while and with the change of presidential administrations, that agreement fell flat.

"Right now, they are making Mugabe the whipping stick because they don’t want Thabo Mbeki or Sam Nujoma or the leaders in southern Africa to start talking about taking back the land," he said, admonishing those Black congresspersons who voted for the Zimbabwe Democracy Bill that punishes President Mugabe.

"I’m telling you that we don’t like that," the Minister said. "We want you to be strong. Even if you lose your seat, don’t lose it by being somebody that is not true to yourself and the best interest of your people. You have to stand up for those who sent you here."

Looking toward the future, Min. Farrakhan warned that the United States government may be planning to do is "what they did in Haiti. They will come in with a military force and destabilize that man because they have already built opposition to Mugabe that’s very strong," he said.

Regarding the launching of the African Union in Durban, South Africa, Min. Farrakhan asked how many of the legislators knew about or received invitations to the historic event that went virtually unattended by Africans in the Diaspora.

"This is important," he noted, "because there will be no African Union without our involvement and we cannot allow that to go down without our having some say about it."

He said that Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi resurrected a vision of Kwame Nkrumah, Abdel Gamal Nasser and others, but the idea originated with Africans in the Diaspora through such great heroes as the Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey, W.E.B. DuBois, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, George Padmore and others.

"That idea of a United States of Africa came from us to them. Now that they have adopted it and it is good for Africa and it is good for us … but we have a lot to offer Africa and Africa has a lot to offer us.

"But there has never been a desire on the part of our tormentors to ever see a connection between Africa and those of us in the Diaspora. And any leader that has tried to build that bridge has either been assassinated, arrested, deported and evil spoken of," he said, naming a litany of great Blacks who have been tarnished by the U.S. government for speaking on foreign affairs.

On domestic issues, the leader of the Nation of Islam said he would go to Georgia to help politicize Black people to their own self interests and the need to retain Rep. McKinney.

The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) successfully helped to defeat incumbent Rep. Earl Hilliard (D-Ala.) in June. AIPAC joined other pro-Israel groups in helping to pour over $1 million into an aggressive ad campaign against the five-term lawmaker. Rep. Hilliard was targeted for his call for a balanced U.S. policy in the Middle East and enjoyed substantial support from Arab Americans. Rep. McKinney faces former judge Denise Majette, who is also Black, in the Georgia congressional primary.

"Cynthia keep doing it and keep strong," Min. Farrakhan said to the outspoken lawmaker, during the July 23 meeting. "There are many more that you don’t see that recognize the truth of what you said," he continued, referring to Rep. McKinney’s questions about what the White House knew before Sept. 11 terror attacks on the U.S. Later it was revealed that there had been some indicators and signs of potential attacks and that the White House and government agencies had received some information.

"We are going to fight like hell for you," Min. Farrakhan said to Ms. McKinney. "We were late with Congressman Hilliard to our regret, sorrow and loss. But dear Rep. McKinney, we will not let this happen again without the best fight that all of us can put forward," he said.

The Minister called the defeat of Mr. Hilliard an immeasurable loss for the Black community. But, he added, that if Mr. Hilliard, who was in attendance, wanted to return to office, he believed it could happen in the next election cycle.

"I am saying this to all of you, that any time we send a man to Congress, we don’t send him there to represent Israel. We send him there to represent the suffering Black community. It is absolutely abhorrent that AIPAC would spend money to unseat a Black man who speaks for the interests of Black people. We are going to stop this, because it is you (Rep. McKinney) now, then if any one of you dare speak, you are next. You have to stand up as men and women for your people, otherwise we have no right to have any hope in you," he stressed.

Rep. McKinney, who is seeking her sixth term, has come under vicious attack, coupled with numerous death threats over her call for hearings on Capitol Hill to investigate prior knowledge, if any, of the Bush administration regarding the Sept. 11 attacks and votes related to rollbacks of civil liberties.

"I filed a dissent July 22, as the only ‘no’ vote in the House Armed Services Committee on the War on Terrorism bill, a bill that authorized another $10 billion for war," Ms. McKinney told The Final Call. The bill included worrisome language that encourages military personnel to work with local law enforcement, she noted.

Rep. McKinney thanked Min. Farrakhan for his kind words and his call for CBC members to be free to act on their convictions. She also thanked Rep. Conyers for bringing the Minister to members of the Black Caucus.

She also believes the media intentionally misreported her words about Sept. 11 and the White House.

Min. Farrakhan cited AIPAC’s role in the unseating of former Illinois Congressman Gus Savage and others. "Everybody who does not agree with all of the tax payer dollars that Israel receives each year is called anti-Semitic. Why don’t we say, ‘you (AIPAC) are anti-Black?’ " Min. Farrakhan asked. "Because they have done more to prove that they are anti-Black than any of us have done to prove that we are anti-Semitic, including Louis Farrakhan."

Fortune magazine ranks AIPAC as the fourth largest lobby group in the country. Since the 1989-90 election cycle, pro-Israel interests have contributed $41.3 million in individual, political action committee and soft money contributions to federal candidates and party committees. More than two-thirds of that total, or $28.6 million, has gone to Democrats, according to Open Secrets, a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group.

"I want to come to Georgia, wherever your district is and outside your district, and I want to tour, speaking in churches and town halls; wherever I can get to speak, to alert the Black people and the White people to what is actually happening here. The country has already been taken and now we have to take it back," Min. Farrakhan said.

Legislators able to attend the briefing were: John Conyers, Cynthia McKinney, Maxine Waters (Ca.), Eva Clayton (N.C.), Earl Hilliard (Ala.), Carolyn Kilpatrick (Mich.), Julia Carson (Ind.), Gregory Meeks (Fla.), Shelia Jackson-Lee (Tx.), Sanford Bishop (Ga.), Mel Watt (N.C.).

Photo: Rep. John Conyers and Min. Farrakhan at meeting with CBC
Credit: Eric Ture Muhammad

 

[SJackson]

Rep Cynthia McKinney showed the House a cluster bomb and a food ration dropped by U.S. planes on Afghanistan. Can you tell the difference? Another sick scam by Herr Rumsfeld?

I know it makes you feel bad everyone is ganging up on JihadCindy, but I don’t think you can deflect attention using Barbara Lee. I would love to see Barbara thrown out of the house. But to answer your question about why there aren’t threads on the topic I see to reasons, one big, one little. Little first, she had (yeah, past tense) no credible opponent in the primary. Reason big, the election is over. Not much point is doing threads on it now. And no, she has no viable Republican opponent either. I thought you were wrong when you said Republican’s were stupid, but maybe some are. GO JIHAD CINDY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your girl

[LarryLied]

If Lev Leviev, Maurice Tempelsman, the Oppenheimer family and the rest of the diamond cartel were protected and the money from the dirty trade kept pouring into the DNC, you two could care if Karl Marx himself had McKinney's seat and everyone knows it.

You only want her out because she is causing trouble for the liberal sleazes in the diamond trade.

Zimbabwe diamond deals exposed (former Mossad agent Ari Ben-Menashe again)

Mugabe pays Ben-Menashe $400,000

Post all the stuff you want about the Palestinians...that can cover up only so much Israeli/DNC corruption elsewhere. People get sick of it.

[mafree]

Thanks for the ping LL.

[dennisw]

Your logic is crappy and you have a bizarre strategy for supporting Cynthia McKinney. You slander Jewish businessmen out of jealousy. You even say you "pity" them as if you are fit to judge them. LOL!

What more is there to know?

[Catspaw]

McKinney is now on the committee.But she says no to Tempelsman. She isn't going to let him rape Africa (or,omore likely, she was a bigger cut of the action).

Well, given that Jihad Cindy and her strong supporter (besides you, of course) Louis Farrakhan staunchly back Robert Mugabe, your support of her is puzzling indeed....but wait! Cindy and her strong supporter, Louis Farrakhan are pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel and anti-Jew....ah, there's the connection.

But don't pretend that McKinney is anti-Mugabe. She isn't. I've proven it and you can't refute it. You do try to dissemble, you do try to be disingenous and you do try to change the subject, as you have done now.

So Larry, why do you support Cynthia McKinney even though she supports Robert Mugabe and the current government and policies of Zimbabwe?

[dennisw]

If Lev Leviev, Maurice Tempelsman, the Oppenheimer family and the rest of the diamond cartel were protected ....

PROTECTED FROM WHAT? YOU?
They do business in Africa and try to monopolize the diamond trade. So what? I never see you complain about Arabs trying to control the oil business. You only complain when Jews make some big bucks. When Israel makes some money from diamonds. Classic jealousy of Jewish achievement.

There are a few African nations that have diamonds and if they can extract and market them, then good luck. 

and the money from the dirty trade........ 

Your slander is dirty. Not what they do. They do business in a dangerous continent called Africa

 kept pouring into the DNC, you two could care if Karl Marx himself had McKinney's seat and everyone knows it.

Get real. The DNC doesn't get very much money from these international diamond merchants. Your only concern is that you are going "expose" some Jewish businessmen

[LarryLied]

Liberals are liberals. Of course the DNC and the liberal establishment feed off African diamonds. Check out how they are forcing Andrew Young to make a fool of himself in Zimbabwe:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/731058/posts?page=57#57

[veronica]

Mr. Lied is just in defense mode since he was caught on this thread saying THE GOP IS THE STUPID PARTY for wanting to get rid of Cynhia McKinney.

I don't understand why he continues to post here. He's completely out of step with the GOP.

[veronica]

You slander Jewish businessmen out of jealousy.

LOL, no doubt about it. The though of the wealth and success of others sets his teeth on edge.

[SJackson]

Larry's Girl!!! Armed Services Committee International Relations Committee Rep Cynthia McKinney showed the House a cluster bomb and a food ration dropped by U.S. planes on Afghanistan. Can you tell the difference? Another sick scam by Herr Rumsfeld? I am not aware of any evidence showing that President Bush or members of his administration have personally profited from the attacks of 9-11. A complete investigation might reveal that to be the case. Now President Bush occupies the White House, but with questionable legitimacy. But however he got there, his Administration is now free to spend one to four billion dollars a month on the war in Afghanistan . . . free to cut the high deployment overtime pay of our young service men and women fighting in that war . . . free to propose drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve National Park . . . free to stonewal l on the Enron and Energy Task Force investigations . . . free to revoke the rules that keep our drinking water free of arsenic . . . free to get caught in Venezuela . . . and free to propose laws that deny our citizens sacred freedoms cherished under the Constitution.

Lev Leviev, Maurice Tempelsman, the Oppenheimer family and the rest of the diamond cartel were protected and the money from the dirty trade kept pouring into the DNC, you two could care if Karl Marx himself had McKinney's seat and everyone knows it. You only want her out because she is causing trouble for the liberal sleazes in the diamond trade. Zimbabwe diamond deals exposed (former Mossad agent Ari Ben-Menashe again) Mugabe pays Ben-Menashe $400,000 Post all the stuff you want about the Palestinians...that can cover up only so much Israeli/DNC corruption elsewhere. People get sick of it. Naah, Lar, doesn’t fly. Sorry you don’t like reading about terrorists so much. Sure Lar, Freepers post and talk about Palestinians and other assorted Islamic terrorists to take the pressure off Israel and the DNC. Terrorists do nothing bad compared to Jews. Thanks for the insight troll. You’re entitled to support McKinney, it’s OK. I want her out because anti-American, and trashes our President and our nation. You want her in because she trashes Israel too. You shouldn’t feel bad about that. More importantly, I think it’s likely she’ll win, you’ll be able to revel in her pronouncements for years. Your accusation that I’m covering up money smuggling and illegal contributions for the DNC is an outright lie. You’re welcome to back it up if you like. Which brings us to the key point. These are CRIMES. I’ve asked you to provide evidence of these contributions, preferably to the FBI, but if you post them here (shaky idea) I’ll see that they get to the authorities. Most of the people you cite, with the exception of Tempelsman aren’t American citizens (I know, they’re Jews). Their campaign contributions are ILLEGAL. It’s a slam bang open and shut case. WHY ARE YOU WITHOLDING THE EVIDENCE? If you don’t have it why are you accusing others of a coverup? You’re either a coward or a slanderer. From a political perspective, another Freeper once commented that if he were James Carville, he’d compile the LarryLied commentaries into a scrapbook, to use as proof that conservatives are a bunch of anti-Semitic right wing bigots. Not true, but a stereotype you certainly give life to. Allow me to congratulate for reinforcing the stereotype of conservative as a bunch of divisive, conspiracy nuts. Accusing people of crimes is fun Larry, but you really need to back it up. In a vacumn, this would be fun and games. Unfortunately we live in a divided country. I love GWB, but I also realize Gore got more votes. We’re coming into what will be some very tight elections this fall. You want McKinney back in, I’d prefer Majette, but I’d really like to see the Republicans pick up a lousy five or six seats. And you’re doing your best to see that doesn’t happen. Your sick agenda is very sad. And it harms Republican chances. Sorry again about posting about Islamic terrorists. If it bothers you, don't read the threads.

[SJackson]

Mr. Lied is just in defense mode since he was caught on this thread saying THE GOP IS THE STUPID PARTY for wanting to get rid of Cynhia McKinney.

Be fair, he may be right, though that's assuming he's a Republican. The LL system is no way to win votes.

[Alouette]

Lev Leviev

What is this THING you have against Lev Leviev?

Larry, it's time to put up or shut up. If you have any direct evidence showing Lev Leviev personally involved in criminal activities, other than innuendos and insinuations and vague smears a la the KGB you claim to so much abhor, let's hear it.

Any questions you may wish to ask of Mr. Leviev personally, here is your chance! Freepmail me with your list of questions. In the interest of fairness so that Mr. Leviev can face his accuser, please include your email, address and phone number.

[TopQuark]

I am not surprised that you respond in such a civilized manner. But I am surprised that you respond at all to the person who publicly stated that his standards of racial purity, when it comes to Jews, are more stringent than those of Hitler.

Just look at the title of the thread. With Larry around, any thread turns into anti-Semitic propaganda. As most semi- and quasi-intellectuals, Larry has spent his life digging up "facts" on Jews and people with Jewish names. No, as if sitting in front on a Scrabble board, he manipulates these "facts" arranging them in various combinations. It's pretty boring to see after a short while.

Then man has nothing to say. He also lies, but don't be too hard on him: it's all in the name.

[SJackson]

Larry, it's time to put up or shut up. If you have any direct evidence showing Lev Leviev personally involved in criminal activities, other than innuendos and insinuations and vague smears a la the KGB you claim to so much abhor, let's hear it.

I'm curious as to whether Mr. Leviev is an American citizen. If not his contributions to the DNC, as frequently commented on by Comrade Lied are felonies.

In addition, I see no FEC record of his contributions, which means there are felons in the DNC which I'm sure we'd all like to expose.

Since he accuses me of being part of a coverup, a felony, I'm developing a personal interest in this as well.

I agree, it's time to see what Comrade Lied has to offer.

Put up or shut up Comrade. *hit or get off the pot.

[Alouette]

I'm curious as to whether Mr. Leviev is an American citizen.

Lev Leviev does not have U.S. citizenship, and has never donated any funds to the DNC.

[SJackson]

Lev Leviev does not have U.S. citizenship, and has never donated any funds to the DNC.

Larry says he does, and I help cover it up.

We're both criminals.

[SJackson]

But I am surprised that you respond at all to the person who publicly stated that his standards of racial purity, when it comes to Jews, are more stringent than those of Hitler.

TopQuark, I beg to disagree. He's a proponent of the Nuremburg laws, which he frequently post on with respect to the mischlinge, and has publicaly stated it was understandable to leave Jews in Europe in the 30's, based on Jews track record of murdering Christians in Europe, and that temple and graveyard desecration in Europe is understandable in view of American Jewish voters voting for Gore, but I've seen nothing to suggest his standards are worse than Hitlers.

A common mindset, yes, worse, no.

What horrific standards to judge someone by.

[TopQuark]

but I've seen nothing to suggest his standards are worse than Hitlers.

I made a specific reference to several posts exchanged about six months ago. I will try to find them and, if successful, post a reference.