2. Some of the tribes are Semetic. Some Semetic tribes are Jewish, some Arab.
Some of the non-tribes were Christian, again, squat to do with the Arabs from surrounding areas calling themselves a new name for political purposes..
3. Also a lot of Bedoin and Druze and Christians and Zoroastrians, etc, etc.
Fluff and stuff. Bedowin call themselves Bedoin, Druze call themselves Druze and Christians call themselves Christians, and Islamic Arabs from Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Lybia, Checknia and Afganistan call themselves "Palestinians" even if they have never been there.
4. How stupid of you it is to expect all different, non-Jewish peoples residing in the Palistine to consider themselves "a people!"
And how brilliant of you to suck right up to the Palestine Liberation Organisation party line, created AFTER the 1948 invasion. If a "People" do not align by race, birth, religion, or geographical location but only by the Political aims of a terrorist organisation I kinda view them as a political terrorist movement, not a people. Doh...
5. "Palistinian" is therefore describing a person's geographic, not nationalistic, origin.
Even if they have never been there right? Like Arafat himself, born and raised in Egypt, was originated in Palestine? Don't forget that Egypt was never Part of "Palestine" but always has been just egypt.
6. Zionism is a nationalist political movement. Any political aspect of "palistinianism" is a reaction to Zionism.
Therefore "Palestinianism" is a political movement and not a people. You just circular-logic argued yourself right around to arguing my position. Always put a liberal on a short leash or they will end up biting their own butt as they chase their tail.
7. Atzlan is a separatist political movement of Hispanic people. "Californians" are people that live in California. "Zionism" describes the political like Atzlan, "Palistinian" is geographical like Californian. If the UN told Californians to give Atzlan (perhaps as Reparations for the Indian Holocaust), one's status as Californian would not supervene on thier reaction. Because only some Californians are Atzlanists or anti-Atzlanists.
However Americans would just tell the UN to go stuff itself, as the Israeli's are when the UN demands that Israel give the land that was captured from Jordan to the Arabs who live in Israel.
What part of Palestinian is a political movement not a people do you not understand? A people have a language, culture, a history. The "Palestinians" speak Arabic, are Arabic, and their history is Islam, which is from Arabia where they invaded from. Uh, perhaps they are ARABS! (woah dude! A concept! pass the doobie...)
Your minimize-Arab/maximize-Jew emphasis is really slimy rhetoric; they're all Semites and both have been there since before ANY Semites called themselves Jews. BTW the Romans removed Israelite claims to Caanan, etc by knocking their silly little countries over like a popsicle stands and re-naming it all Palistine. Did you hear that? Were you paying attention? That's right- claims of unbroken "Jewish" sovereignty over Jerusalem are pure poppycock and historical revisionism!
The Isrealites fought the Romans in their own Jewish Jihad (jihad means "holy war" but sounds scarier and otherly) and they LOST (so much for "the choosen ones"). That was 2000 years ago - the statute of limitations for grievance has expired, and metaphysical fantasies are not legally binding!
Glad you agree that tribal status has squat to do with geographical status. Members of real tribes in California are Californians. Any resident of California is a Californian (duh.)
Israelis and Arabs and Druze and Zoroastrians residing in the Palistine are Palistinians. The idea that Israelis are not Palestinians is Orwellian.
The diversity of non-Israeli Palestinians is not an arguement against them. They don't need to be a Recognized Choosen People of the One True Great White Father's Unbroken Bloodline Tribe to have human rights. Californians aren't a tribe, but still have rights equal to particular tribes of California.
Your attempt at reducing Mid-East history to Good Judeo-Christians VS. Bad Arabs fails.
Again, Palistine is the name of the area because the Romans said so 2000 years ago, Isrealite objections NOTWITHSTANDING. It wasn't just Arabs calling themselves Palestinian (as you imply); so did the Christians and many Jews. And "Palestinian" was not a new, but a 2000 year old, name.
Have you been swimming in de' Nile or what?!
Wrong again, my ex-patriot friend. Is their something in the dust over there that makes people into zealots only capable of seeing one side of complex issues? (;^)
You're mistake, again, is ignoring the need for both tribal and geographical designates.
Many physically located in country of America have a tribal/ethnic designate placed next to their geographical one.
EG: Irish-American, Jewish-American, Arab-American, Native American, Muslim-American, African American. (Please don't ask me for a rule regarding hyphenation.)
Being in Israel, surely you've noticed people referred with >1 designate? Even back in our country, I see mentioned "Arab Israelis," "Palestinian Christians," "Arab-Palestinians," "Arab-Muslim," etc.
I hate to play the Freud card, but wasn't it actually the Zionists that started calling themselves a new name (Israelites) for the political purpose of establishing a Jewish state in the Palistine? Careful with those rocks and glass houses, bro...
Palestinians are a "People" in the sense New Yorkers are a "People." It's just where they live (not a fricking ideology like Zionism). The PLO arose after the UN-imposed undemocratic Israel creation mandate caused global chaos. Did the SovComs hijack anti-UN Mandate causes for Arafat or did Arafat matchmake and grow his support base like a any good cult leader? $$$? In any case, Fatty survived the power struggles and wins elections. I'm 100% sure you know why and would love to tell me!
Seems to me that the political aspect of Palestinianism is defined most crucially by the negative of Jewish Statism. That negative takes the form of Back-To-The-Caliphate-ism only because of the particular recent history of the area. Being anti-Zionism doesn't automatically make someone pro-extreme-Islam. That's the stuff of strawman agruments, and isn't worthy of freerepublic.
Fundamentalists, whether Islamis or Isrealis, are both equally anti-Palestine. They war over whether the Palestine will be a Jewish or Muslim caliphate. It's a family thing. Hatfield Vs McCoy. Irresolvable becaues they both can't have the Hill.
The Bedoin/Jewish/Muslim/Christian/Anamist/Gnostic Joe Boobtubes of Palestine probably just want a return to a multicultural society under agnostic administration. Who was running things when Syria and Lebanon were exotic flowers in full bloom? My and future generations will only see them as backward armpits of humanity, thanks to the results of U.N. actions circumventing the Consent of the Governed. (call the whaaambulance, right?)
Are you often reminded of that concept over there in Storybook Land?
I think you know better than this. Why are you obfuscating, Mr. Red Shield? I know better too, so this is for the benefit of lurkers.
The Jewish State (pop. 2,000,000) has for 50 years illegally occupied not only Jerusalem and the Palestine (pop. 5,000,000), but the Gaza Strip as well. The occupied Gaza Strip (pop 2,000,000 + 2000 settlers) is part of Egypt.
As the decades wore on, sleepy, hypnotized Americans' media LUMPED the occupied Egyptians together with Palestinians. Also, the Palestinian Liberation Organization includes Gaza in its list of places to liberate and draws support from there. Not suprisingly, thousands of refugees are warehoused there in an Israeli Gulag Archipelago.
A cursory pull of Fatty's bio shows he's been involved with ending Isreali occupation for decades, and won the Nobel Peace Prize. You try to make Fatty look like some 3rd party interloper. The UN, Brititsh and British Zionists actually are foriegners responsible for the current mess, but you won't blame them for one single thing, will you?
Egypt is occupied by Israel. So is Palestine. It's not really that big a jump considering they're right next to each other, now is it? Yes, Arafat went to university in Cairo, but it's not like his kind are accepted to Ben Gurion. Here's something from CNN.com establishing Arafat's credentials:
Arafat was born Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat al Qudwa al-Hussein in Cairo, Egypt, on August 24, 1929, the son of a successful merchant. His mother died when he was 4, and he went to live with an uncle in Jerusalem, a city that was a British protectorate. It was during those years that Arafat was first exposed to the clash between Arabs and Jews, including many who immigrated to build a Jewish homeland in Palestine. A student of Jewish life When he attended college in Cairo, he undertook a study of Jewish life there, associating with Jews and reading the works of Zionists such as Theodor Herzl. But by 1946 he had become a Palestinian nationalist and was procuring weapons in Egypt to be smuggled into Palestine in the Arab cause.
A cursory pull of Fatty's bio shows he's been involved with ending Isreali occupation for decades, and won the Nobel Peace Prize. You try to make Fatty look like some 3rd party interloper. The UN, Brititsh and British Zionists actually are foriegners responsible for the current mess, but you won't blame them for one single thing, will you?
Egypt is occupied by Israel. So is Palestine. It's not really that big a jump considering they're right next to each other, now is it? Yes, Arafat went to university in Cairo, but it's not like his kind are accepted to Ben Gurion. Here's something from CNN.com establishing Arafat's credentials:
Arafat was born Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat al Qudwa al-Hussein in Cairo, Egypt, on August 24, 1929, the son of a successful merchant. His mother died when he was 4, and he went to live with an uncle in Jerusalem, a city that was a British protectorate. It was during those years that Arafat was first exposed to the clash between Arabs and Jews, including many who immigrated to build a Jewish homeland in Palestine.A student of Jewish life When he attended college in Cairo, he undertook a study of Jewish life there, associating with Jews and reading the works of Zionists such as Theodor Herzl. But by 1946 he had become a Palestinian nationalist and was procuring weapons in Egypt to be smuggled into Palestine in the Arab cause.
The political movement of Zionism created opposition in the form of the PLO, etc. Human beings in Palestine don't need to be a proper (or THE CHOOSEN) People to have the rights of self defense and freedom.
And so you are wrong and illogical in your above claim. Just because one particular aspect of the experience of being Palestinian has been politicized by the invasion of UN-backed Zionists, it does not follow that being Palestinian automaticly gives anyone a political disposition.
This is also seen on the Israeli side of the wall; great difference of opinion exists among Arab/Jewish Isrealis, Zionists, Orthodox, and athiestic Russian emigres.
Advocating illegal, extreme Final Solutions, the Russians and Zealots make strange bedfellows, don't they?
Yes, Americans would do that. And now you've fallen into my trap. :^))
Why is it OK for America and Isreal to pick-and-choose when to tell the UN to stuff itself, but not OK for Palestinians to do the same?
The Palestine isn't UN property to be deeded over to a Jewish state as a belated "I'm sorry" present to make up for genocides and pogroms commited by Europeans.
Not anymore than East L.A. should be deeded to Mexico City for past wartime unpleasantries.
The Palestinians have been telling the UN and Zionists to go stuff themselves (just like patriots should) for 50 years, but $6,000,000,000.00 a year buys a lot of AIPAC Washington Lobbyists, CAMERA thought police, ADL secret police, JDL hitmen, DEA moles, and "friends" in control mechanisms like the oligopoly media.
The majority of Palestinians are Arabs. This highlights the unworkable, undemocratic, colonialist aparthied nature of Isreal.
The Arab Palestinians are a People as you see it: language, history, culture. This is the predominant Palestinian sub-category. Next in number are the Palestinan Jews, some of whom are Zionists. Then you have the Christ/Zoroaster/Istar/Ashtar/StarCamel minorities.
Arab Palestinians are a People. Jewish Palestinians are a People. Coptic Christian Palestianians are a People.
But "Palestinians", as a mass noun, denotes the people and Peoples of the Palestine. Nothing more, unless you still chafe at the Roman's victory 2000 years ago. But the Second Temple lacked the proper building permits and was being used to harbor anti-Government terrorists, so the Romans just had to raze it.
I reject your reduction of Palestinians into two camps, Good Israel and Bad non-Israel. I know looking at it that way makes it easier to rationalize the statue quo.
1948, now that was a year, wasn't it.
Say, speaking of years, 1967 was a year too, if I'm not mistaken. Which reminds me -- the Arabs insist that the only reason they attack Israel is because they want to "return to the 1967 borders."
OK, whatever. But what I can't figure out is if that's "the only reason they fight", why the hell were they continually fighting before 1967?
People that are such patently lousy liars that they can't even keep their story's major BS points straight should probably not try to get by as career liars.