Transcript From Last Night's Hannity & Colmes: Rev. Peterson vs. Michael Eric Dyson

FoxNews.com ^ | August 13, 2002 | Federal Document Clearing House

[NewDestiny]

Jesse Lee Peterson and Michael Eric Dyson Tuesday, August 13, 2002

This partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, August 12, 2002 was provided by the Federal Document Clearing House.

Click here to order last night's entire transcript.

SEAN HANNITY/HOST: Also coming up tonight, what got Rudy Giuliani hopping mad in the weeks after September 11? We're going to hear the inside story from the former fire commissioner, Thomas Von Essen.

But first, the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson says that he was booed, jeered and called a white man's boy when he attended the annual convention of the National Association of Black Journalists. So what was at the root of this spectacle? The founder of the Brotherhood Organization: A New Destiny, the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson joins us from Los Angeles. And from Philadelphia, professor of Afro-American studies at the University of Pennsylvania, Michael Eric Dyson, who was also at the convention.

Jesse, let's see, you're claiming that Mr. Dyson and others called you ignorant, accused you of being the white man's boy, attacked your education, the way you spoke, said you were a pawn for the white man. I thought this was a conference where there's a free and open exchange of ideas. You can't have a different viewpoint without being personally assaulted and your character assassinated?

JESSE LEE PETERSON, B.O.N.D.: You know, I thought the same thing, Sean. I was invited there by the National Association of Black Journalists to debate the issue of reparations. And I was debating Michael Eric Dyson. There were about 300 or so black journalists there...

HANNITY: Yes.

PETERSON: ...from across the country. Michael Dyson gets up. They gave him the first and the last word, by the way. Michael gets up and he presents his reasons for reparations.

HANNITY: That's a fair debate. Sure.

PETERSON: And it was the same old stuff you hear all the time.

HANNITY: Yes.

PETERSON: You know, the slavery and the white man. I get up. And by the way, they applauded him. They loved him. I get up and I say that reparations is racist, it is divisive, and it's another way for the so-called leaders, black leaders, to use black Americans to gain power and wealth.

HANNITY: All right, I don't want to get into that.

PETERSON: And they start screaming...

HANNITY: Hang on a second. Because we've debated reparations on the program.

PETERSON: Yes, but it...

HANNITY: And that's not the purpose of tonight's discussion.

PETERSON: Yes, but it was at that point, Sean, that they started screaming and calling me names and telling me that I'm the white boy's...

HANNITY: Hang on one second.

PETERSON: ...a white man's boy.

HANNITY: Jesse, I want to go to Michael Dyson. I've got to be honest, Michael. You've been on the program. We've had passionate debate with you. And then after this, you and others apparently -- you wrote this, I guess in your weekly column in "The Chicago Sun-Times", "if you've ever wondered what a self-hating black man who despises black culture and worships at the alter of whiteness looks like, take a gander at the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. In Peterson's mind, black rates of teen pregnancy, the breakdown of the black family, and black peoples' addiction to civil rights advocacy are the unerring symptoms of moral failures.

Michael, you know what? I didn't picture you as a mean-spirited person. What you wrote here is mean spirited.

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, UNIV. OF PENNSYLVANIA: I don't think so, Sean. I respect your opinion, but had you been there to see the full volley of venom that Reverend Peterson directed toward black people, here you are, I think, trying to make the victim...

HANNITY: Worship at the altar of whiteness? Worship at the altar of whiteness?

DYSON: Let me tell you what that is. Here is a man who stood up… Let me tell you what that is. I'm sorry? Let me tell you.

COLMES: Go ahead.

DYSON: Reverend Peterson at the convention spewed some of the most venomous, vindictive, hateful venom...

PETERSON: Like what?

DYSON: ...toward black people that one might imagine.

PETERSON: Like what, Michael?

DYSON: He said we were totally reprehensible, we were immoral, we had no reason to argue for our own equal standing in African/American society.

PETERSON: Michael, you're not...

DYSON: Let me finish.

PETERSON: That's not what I said.

DYSON: Once black people then morally rehabilitate themselves...

PETERSON: I said...

DYSON: ...then they will be available for that kind of thing. And I think that's reprehensible.

PETERSON: I said that...

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: Reverend Peterson, did you say to Michael Dyson, "Jesus does not speak to you." Did you say that to him?

PETERSON: I said to Mike Dyson...

DYSON: Yes.

PETERSON: ...and the black journalists there that money or reparations would not solve the problems of black Americans.

COLMES: But didn't you say Jesus (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Did you say that?

PETERSON: That most blacks are suffering not due to racism, but the lack of moral character.

COLMES: Jesse Lee, answer my question.

PETERSON: And Michael -- let me tell you what happened, Alan.

COLMES: Did you say to him Jesus does not speak to you?

PETERSON: Michael was quoting the scriptures, right? And I said to him that he has the words of the bible, but he doesn't know God at all because there is no way you can know God and teach this type of hatred.

DYSON: Sean, what do you think about that? What do you think about that, Sean?

COLMES: That's pretty attacking.

(CROSSTALK)

PETERSON: You can't have love and hate in your heart, Michael.

DYSON: No, no, no, I don't have any hate in my heart. Here's my point.

PETERSON: Yes, you do.

DYSON: Those...

PETERSON: You hate white people.

DYSON: I do not hate, I love white people. I don't hate white people.

PETERSON: No, you don't. You hate white people.

DYSON: I hate white supremacists.

PETERSON: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). You are a black (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Michael.

COLMES: All right, Jesse, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), one at a time.

PETERSON: Yes, you do. Yes, you are.

DYSON: OK, I hate white supremacy. I hate black bigotry. What I'm telling you if those firemen who are coming home from New York, if you say to them, look, you made some mistakes on 9/11. Therefore, you are to blame for what happened on 9/11. That would be ludicrous. That is comparable to what Mr. Reverend Peterson said to African-American people. And that is self-hating and self-abnegating...

COLMES: Reverend Peterson...

DYSON: Here's a man who's telling me as a minister...

(CROSSTALK)

DYSON: ...that I don't know even God. Telling me I don't know God.

COLMES: It's fair to debate reparations.

PETERSON: You don't.

COLMES: But what they're saying is that you went beyond that. You went on to talk about how immoral black people are, how hateful they are of black Americans. They deserve no kind of positive treatment until they get away from civil rights leaders.

PETERSON: I didn't say that, Alan.

DYSON: Yes, you did.

PETERSON: I didn't say that.

COLMES: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what you meant.

PETERSON: I said that unless we restore the family, unless fathers and mothers come back to guide their children in the right way to go, no money will solve that problem. There was a man there by the name of Vernon Jarrett, who is one of the founders of the National Association of Black Journalists. He got up and said to me, "I can't believe what you're saying. You're just a white man's pawn." And he said, "Who is this white boy that you have passing out your flyers?" And I said to him it was a black boy. Doug is a black man, who happened to be light skinned.

COLMES: All right, Michael, let me ask you...

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: ...Michael, your response and then we've got to go.

DYSON: Well, I'm just saying that this is self-hatred of the most extraordinary order. If he was a white man...

PETERSON: But you're the one that's hateful.

COLMES: Let him finish.

PETERSON: You are a racist, Michael.

DYSON: If he said some of the things he said -- if he said...

PETERSON: You (UNINTELLIGIBLE) National Association of Black Journalists...

DYSON: ...(UNINTELLIGIBLE) as a white man. Now his outrage pervades throughout America. He won't even let me finish. My point is that if he was a white man...

PETERSON: (UNINTELLIBLE).

DYSON: If he was a white man saying this, he would be branded as a racist. He is reprehensible. He needs to be called out.

PETERSON: But what is wrong with white people saying...

DYSON: And I will continue to call it out. I didn't hear Sean get upset by the fact that Reverend Peterson said I didn't know God.

PETERSON: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Michael.

DYSON: You know that's reprehensible. Sean, what do you say about him claiming I don't know God? What do you think about that?

PETERSON: You can't know God and have hatred in your heart.

HANNITY: Only for God to determine. Little Sean Hannity doesn't know anybody's heart. And we'll let Him judge it.

PETERSON: Absolutely.

HANNITY: All right, thank you both for -- to be honest...

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: I've got to tell you, hang on...

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: This is sad. This is sad, guys. This is very sad and you both really need to get together and help each other out. That's it.

And coming up next, how did former fire commissioner Thomas Von Essen deal with his own grief while leading the city through disaster? He's the author of the new book "Strong of Heart". He'll join us next.

Click here to order last night's entire transcript.

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[aristeides]

Jesse, let's see, you're claiming that Mr. Dyson and others called you ignorant, accused you of being the white man's boy, attacked your education, the way you spoke, said you were a pawn for the white man.

Why do these black racists call those who disagree with them "ignorant" all the time? Seems to me they're the ones who are ignorant.

[aristeides]

DYSON: If he was a white man saying this, he would be branded as a racist. He is reprehensible. He needs to be called out.

In effect, Dyson admits how the charge of being a "racist" (for whites, blacks like Peterson are called "self-hating") is used to intimidate people out of saying things he does not like.

[Saundra Duffy]

Just caught the tail end of it. Seems like Hannity was not all that supportive for some reason. Anyway, thanks for posting this. For victory & freedom!!!

[Recovering_Democrat]

Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson says that he was booed, jeered and called a white man's boy when he attended the annual convention of the National Association of Black Journalists.

The state of so-called "Journalism" in America today is to name-call and use the ad hominem attack to the exclusion of reasonable examination of facts. Black liberal "journalists" don't have the monopoly on this idiocy: non-blacks are just as idiotic.

Fox News is the exception: I don't agree with everything I hear, but I do generally hear both sides.

[semaj]

Notice what Dyson takes issue with...The rev. Petersons accusation that Dyson doesn't know God. Is Dyson's faith so shaky that the ignorant rev. Peterson's remark causes it to waiver? These black bigots became so upset with the rev. Peterson because what he has to say is dead on the mark, and if John and Betty Black ever hear what he has to say, it will spell the end of their monopoly on black victimization (racketeering)politics.

[billhilly]

In effect, Dyson admits how the charge of being a "racist" (for whites, blacks like Peterson are called "self-hating") is used to intimidate people out of saying things he does not like.

You are not supposed to say that......But you could not be more right.

[aristeides]

Right, Dyson couldn't object to the things Peterson said that he really didn't like, because it would sound bad over national television. So he chose to react in high dudgeon to Peterson's statement about God, figuring that would not look so bad.

[JoeSixPack1]

Whenever Group-Think is challenged, political power is circumvented. Rev. Peterson's personal outlook on his race exposes the collective political power black leaders have aquired through racial division.

The claim of "whitey's boy" is comical when compared to the title "first black President" given to a snow white draft dodger because he exercised his political power to spread tax dollars to politically controlled religous groups promising voter loyalty.

And to top it off, this entire episode was supposedly beneficial to a segment of the population known as "REPORTERS", not leaders. But I guess that isn't even questioned anymore.

[ArcLight]

Frankly, Peterson sounds to me like an idiot. Assuming he said the sort of stuff Dyson says he said--and Peterson's own words suggest that he did say something like that.

[TexKat]

Did not see the program last night, sorry I missed it. But not taking sides Rev. Jesse Peterson is another Rev. Jesse Jackson, just pulling up by other tactics. Give him another few climbing years and then we can discuss his motives. Has it been a year yet since he said that if anything happens to him, look at Jesse Jackson, because JJ had a hit out on him. Is it that there are one too many cooks in the kitchen.

[mhking]

Black conservative ping

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[swheats]

I thought so too, Sean didn't seam as supportive of Rev Peterson. I suppose he had his fair and balanced hat on last night.

[swheats]

I can't believe Dison's biggest concern was that Rev Peterson told him Jesus doesn't talk to him. I guess the truth hurts...you'll know them by their fruit.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

He is reprehensible. He needs to be called out.

I know that in the 'good old days' calling someone out was a euphemism for challenging someone to a duel. If the shouting head types actually could still do this, it might make folks a lot more civil. Couldn't hurt around FR sometimes, either.

[What Is Ain't]

if you've ever wondered what a self-hating black man who despises black culture and worships at the alter of whiteness looks like, take a gander at the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson.

Translation: he thinks for himself and doesn't regurgitate the victimology line his detractors demand of all black voices. Woe unto him who tries to flee the plantation.

I admire the courage it takes to stand with so few beside you in such an important battle.

I wish Jesse all the best.

[aristeides]

Rev. Peterson is about to be interviewed on Sean Hannity's radio show. I'm pinging as much of your list as is visible, but you may want to ping the rest.

[mhking]

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.