Gun law off-target (UK)

Daily Telegraph ^ | 8-13-02

[SJackson]

On the streets of Britain's biggest cities, an illegal handgun can be bought for as little as £50.

The black-market supply of these weapons has increased enormously since the break-up of the Soviet Union, and changes in European frontier regulations have made it much easier to smuggle them into the country. As Kate Hoey, the Labour MP for Vauxhall, wrote in our Sport section yesterday, there are some inner-city areas in which it is now easier to buy an illegal gun than to find a taxi in the rain.

What a farce it was, therefore, that guns belonging to competitors in the shooting events at the Commonwealth Games were transported from Heathrow Airport to the National Shooting Centre at Bisley, Surrey, in armoured cars. Did anybody seriously believe that criminals would risk ambushing the competitors for their guns, while there were already more than enough illegal weapons in the country to keep the underworld armed to the teeth for at least the next 10 years?

The truth is that the Firearms Act, 1997, which outlawed the ownership of most handguns in Britain, did nothing to discourage their illegal use. Indeed, the number of crimes in which handguns were carried increased by no less than 40 per cent in the two years after the Act became law.

The only people who suffered from the ban, introduced by the Major government in an attempt to be seen to be doing something after the Dunblane massacre, were those who owned and used their guns lawfully.

Among the hardest hit were Britain's competitive shooters, who proved again at the Commonwealth Games that they are the equals of any in the world. England alone won 18 medals, five of them gold, while Northern Ireland won two golds, and Scotland and Wales five medals between them.

The effect of the Act on these competitors has been to force them abroad to train. This has not only been hugely expensive and inconvenient for most of them, putting them at a great competitive disadvantage. It has also been a national humiliation.

Bisley has been the home of shooting since 1898. Newly modernised, after the investment of some £6 million of lottery money, it has some of the finest pistol ranges in the world. Yet Britain has been exposed by the Act as one of the very few countries in the world that does not trust its law-abiding citizens to own handguns.

As Miss Hoey argued so powerfully yesterday, the renovation of Bisley and Britain's successes at the Games should give the Government its cue to amend a hastily introduced, ill thought-out and unjust law.

[SJackson]

*bang_list

[2banana]

"No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave. He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion."
--Andrew Fletcher (1655-1716), quoted by James Burgh (1714-1775), in "Political Disquisitions: Or, an Enquiry into Public Errors, Defects, and Abuses," (London, 1774-1775)

"Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the_real_object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
--Patrick Henry (1736-1799), June 9, 1788, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution, in_Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution,_ Jonathan Elliot, ed., v.3 p.168 (Philadelphia, 1836)

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Thanks Britain for proving the stupidity of gun laws and confiscating. You have done more to strengthen our Second Amendment than every gun rights group could ever have done.

[DWSUWF]

"...Thanks Britain for proving the stupidity of gun laws and confiscating. You have done more to strengthen our Second Amendment than every gun rights group could ever have done..."

Well put.

[Kenton]

Thanks Britain for proving the stupidity of gun laws and confiscating. You have done more to strengthen our Second Amendment than every gun rights group could ever have done.

Combined with Canada and Australia, the British Commonwealth has laid bare the true intentions of the anti-gun crowd.

In the early Clinton years, Americans who voiced a fear of gun confiscation were called "paranoid". Not anymore...

[OldSmaj]

The truth is that the Firearms Act, 1997, which outlawed the ownership of most handguns in Britain...

I am aghast.

The law says that guns are outlawed. Why are there still guns in Britain?

The moment this law was effective, all guns should have disappeared!

What is the problem?

Now, only outlaws have guns.

FMCDH.

[dd5339]

Bump!

[MadIvan]

Thanks Britain for proving the stupidity of gun laws and confiscating. You have done more to strengthen our Second Amendment than every gun rights group could ever have done.

You're welcome. However, I think we've had enough punishment. ;)

Regards, Ivan

[Reaganwuzthebest]

In the early Clinton years, Americans who voiced a fear of gun confiscation were called "paranoid". Not anymore...

Just saw a recent poll that said 75% of Americans support the individual's right to keep and bear arms. That's a good sign not too many want to go the British way.

[Paradox]

Once again, freedom loving British citizens are screwed over by the elitist who run the government. They have my sympathies. Its a shame really, most Brits I know, while not as conservative as I or most freepers are, are much more sensible than the euroweenie whiners that inhabit the government and major newspapers there.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

You're welcome. However, I think we've had enough punishment. ;)

Lol. It's nice to see some Brits are waking up and demanding a repeal. Democracy is alive and well over there, I hope.

[MadIvan]

Lol. It's nice to see some Brits are waking up and demanding a repeal. Democracy is alive and well over there, I hope.

More or less. Sometimes less than more.

Regards, Ivan

[WindMinstrel]

on the other hand, that means in the 20-odd years the gun-grabbers have been active they've convinced 25% of the populace that we don't need a Constitutional right

[dcwusmc]

The gun-grabbers have been active a LOT longer than that... remember NFA? GCA '68? State "laws" prior to '34? Goes back actually to the late 1800's in this country...

[Myrddin]

The U.K. has the same problem as California. The massive immigration of foreigners has increased the number of welfare recipients who will continue to vote for the same. "Labour" is the party that favors socialism and the dole to stay in power. They are also the party that favors gun control. The immigrants on the dole have all the illegal firearms they can use and welfare benefits to stay comfortable. It is unlikely to change in the near future.

[Shooter 2.5]

The Brit's still try to point to their murder rates which is much less than the U.S. as proof that gun control works.
The drug gangs haven't been as violent and the muggers and the victims treat robbery as just a fact of life.
Historically, this may change in a hearbeat. It will only take one or two drug wars and the muggers facing real jail time to realize they don't want to leave witnesses to escalate the rates. Then what will Britain do?

[Billthedrill]

Nothing much to say except to congratulate the Brit shooters for triumphing over real adversity. Good shootin', mates!

[SJackson]

The Brit's still try to point to their murder rates which is much less than the U.S. as proof that gun control works...Then what will Britain do?

Ping me in a year and let me know if that's true. What will they do, as in 1939, ask American gunowners, with NRA assistance I believe, to donate firearms so the British people can battle the new hordes.

At least someone still knows how to shoot there, future instructors.

[SJackson]

meant to include you in 19