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Men and Marriage
ABC News ^ | Lee Dye

Posted on 08/14/2002 6:45:17 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy

Men are now waiting on average until the age of 27 to marry, compared to 25 for women, but that doesn't mean they are against marriage as an institution, according to the co-directors of the project, David Popenoe, a behavioral scientist and professor of sociology at Rutgers, and Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, a marriage expert. Men, they conclude, just aren't in any hurry.

"The good news is that men who marry later may be more financially stable and emotionally mature," says Popenoe. The bad news is they may be so set in their ways that they are lousy at making the compromises that help a marriage get over the rough spots.

The researchers conducted eight meetings with 60 "not-yet-married" men in northern New Jersey, Chicago, Washington, D.C., and Houston. The men were ages 25 to 33, and none of them were gay.

The researchers note that most people think it's men, not women, who are "dragging their feet about marriage," and they state "our investigation of male attitudes indicates that there is evidence to support this popular view." The primary reason given by men for taking their sweet time:

They can get sex without marriage more easily now than in the past.

And they aren't all that interested in having children anytime soon, which is of concern to the researchers because the biological clock is clicking on the women they will someday expect to mother their kids.

Many of the conclusions won't come as much of a surprise to anyone who has observed the current state of mating rituals. When men pick up a girl in a bar, for example, they aren't looking for a long-term partner. A one night stand is more likely on their minds.

The participants also indicated that they want a woman who is able to take care of herself, which is somewhat of a reversal from the macho old world attitudes of just a generation or two ago. But here's a conclusion that is right out of the age of romantic novels:

What Men What

"Most of the men in these groups want to marry at some future time in their lives," the researchers conclude.

"They expect their marriages to last a lifetime. Like the majority of young adults today, they are seeking a `soul mate."'

But all that can wait. There doesn't seem to be anyone pushing them toward the altar anyway.

"Today's young men encounter few, if any, traditional pressures from religion, employers or society to marry," the researchers state, although they do get a bit of ribbing from parents who want grandchildren and colleagues who have already made that trip to the altar.

One area that concerns many men, according to the research, is the fear of failure. They see friends who are too willing to give up at the first sign of disharmony, and there's no question that marriage is not an easy institution to maintain.

The researchers believe marriage has a much better chance of surviving if both partners expect it to last a lifetime. Attitude at the opening gun seems to be very important.

But here's a line from the report that is worth pondering:

"Men see marriage as a final step in a prolonged process of growing up."

Not surprisingly, some of the guys who participated in the project are still living with their parents.

Top 10 List

For the record, here are the 10 top reasons why men are "slow to commit:"

1. They can get sex without marriage more easily than in times past.

2. They can enjoy the benefits of having a wife by cohabiting rather than marrying.

3. They want to avoid divorce and its financial risks.

4. They want to wait until they are older to have children.

5. They fear that marriage will require too many changes and compromises.

6. They are waiting for the perfect soul mate, and she hasn't yet appeared.

7. They face few social pressures to marry.

8. They are reluctant to marry a woman who already has children.

9. They want to own a house before they get a wife.

10. They want to enjoy single life as long as they can.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: marriagewhy
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I thought that this would make an interesting first post, because I am a man who has no intention of ever getting married, and for many of the reasons mentioned in this article.

In case anyone is wondering, I am not a troll, I date plenty. I own two homes(investments), and I am 35, 6-3, and I am a Management Consultant for a very large company. All of the men that I work with, feel exactly the same, that marriage is not worth the risk, no matter how nice the woman might be.

Frankly, I am convinced that there is nothing to be gained for men in a married relationship. I dont see why I should agree to a contract risking 50% of my future earnings, when I dont want any children because I enjoy traveling and meeting new people.

I wonder how many people feel the same?

Even for those who disagree, I wonder how many can do so without the usual name-calling associated with what some people feel is a selfish stance?

I realize that most Conservatives are Christians, and for them Marriage is a holy thing. However, I am a Buddhist so save it, Okay? I just wonder how many Conservatives agree that marriage is becoming a rare thing.

1 posted on 08/14/2002 6:45:17 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
I don't think your anecdotal evidence supports your assertion that marriage is becomming a "rare thing".

That said, I see nothing wrong with you not wanting to marry. It's your life.

There is nothing selfish about not wanting children. There are plenty of people out there who have no business having children but they do it anyways because of stupidity, to save a relationship or because they think this is what they are supposed to do. This is selfishness at its finest.

2 posted on 08/14/2002 6:52:40 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: BuddhaBoy
"I dont see why I should agree to a contract risking 50% of my future earnings..."

I'd like to just remind you of something my dad says, "Having money is a poor way to be rich." Think about it.

3 posted on 08/14/2002 6:55:05 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: BuddhaBoy
You just haven't met her yet.
4 posted on 08/14/2002 6:56:06 PM PDT by GWfan
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To: BuddhaBoy
Have you ever considered that your reasoning screams the phrase, Me-Me-Me?

The ladies that you're dating are surely hoping that you'll make a long-term commitment.

5 posted on 08/14/2002 6:56:24 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: BuddhaBoy
And they aren't all that interested in having children anytime soon, which is of concern to the researchers because the biological clock is clicking on the women they will someday expect to mother their kids.

The biological clock in men is much slower. Also, men have the option of marrying much younger women. Sounds like the chickens of the "Sexual Revolution" are coming home to roost.

6 posted on 08/14/2002 6:57:52 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: BuddhaBoy
Frankly, I am convinced that there is nothing to be gained for men in a married relationship.

For many, there's something incredibly beautiful and wonderful about sharing your life, creating and raising children, with a beautiful (in heart, body and soul) and wonderful woman. Of course, you're entitled to live your life as you see fit. But you're missing out on a lot!

7 posted on 08/14/2002 6:58:22 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
I dont want to just HAVE money, I want to SPEND it.

Seriously though, I enjoy spending money on women, but I would rather not have to do it, because some Judge orders it, just because I might have in the past said nice things to her, and let her live in my house.

I am one of those guys who think that men who spend a month's salary on an engagement ring need counseling.

8 posted on 08/14/2002 6:59:37 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
women are mean to me ! Thats why I'll never get married. LOL!
9 posted on 08/14/2002 7:00:30 PM PDT by anncoulteriscool
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To: BuddhaBoy
>>And they aren't all that interested in having children anytime soon, which is of concern to the researchers because the biological clock is clicking on the women they will someday expect to mother their kids<<

This is absurd. Any successful 35-45 year old man can have all the 25 year old women on the planet that he wants.

The "researchers" are concerned because the men aren't doing their job-TS.

10 posted on 08/14/2002 7:00:37 PM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: BuddhaBoy
I just wonder how many Conservatives agree that marriage is becoming a rare thing.

Getting married at an older age is not the same as never getting married at all. I think something like 95% of Americans eventually get married.

I have no problem with people who don't want to get married; hey, it's your life. Just don't make any babies.

11 posted on 08/14/2002 7:01:03 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: BuddhaBoy
Frankly, I am convinced that there is nothing to be gained for men in a married relationship. I dont see why I should agree to a contract risking 50% of my future earnings, when I dont want any children because I enjoy traveling and meeting new people.

No problem, there are lots of high fertility immigrants whose offspring will fill what would have been your offsprings' places. Most likely that kid's name is Mohammed.

12 posted on 08/14/2002 7:02:30 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: BuddhaBoy
You are missing the point.
13 posted on 08/14/2002 7:02:36 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: BuddhaBoy
BTW, Welcome to freerepublic!
14 posted on 08/14/2002 7:02:57 PM PDT by anncoulteriscool
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To: BuddhaBoy
just because I might have in the past said nice things to her, and let her live in my house.

If that's how you view marriage, you are better off single.

15 posted on 08/14/2002 7:03:29 PM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Ciexyz
Have you ever considered that your reasoning screams the phrase, Me-Me-Me?

Yes, but its not just ME.

Were the court system in Americe more equitable towards men, I might feel differently.

I think the ladies I date are hoping only that they survive, and that I order dessert.

16 posted on 08/14/2002 7:04:13 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: Paleo Conservative
Prediction:

There will come a day when you will wish you has a wife and children.

17 posted on 08/14/2002 7:05:18 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: BuddhaBoy
*****Seriously though, I enjoy spending money on women*****

I think one reason gay men are wealthier than straight men is because they dont blow money on woman!

18 posted on 08/14/2002 7:06:10 PM PDT by anncoulteriscool
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To: Jim Noble
This is absurd. Any successful 35-45 year old man can have all the 25 year old women on the planet that he wants.

Worth pondering..........

19 posted on 08/14/2002 7:06:52 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: anncoulteriscool
They also don't spend money on children.
20 posted on 08/14/2002 7:07:18 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: anncoulteriscool
I didnt say LOTS of money.
21 posted on 08/14/2002 7:09:08 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy; Jim Noble
'This is absurd. Any successful 35-45 year old man can have all the 25 year old women on the planet that he wants.'

Worth pondering..........

And it is getting easier and easier to search the whole planet for the most desirable mate.

22 posted on 08/14/2002 7:11:19 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: BuddhaBoy
If I hadn't read the last part of your post, I'd have said "step one is put down the joint, chief." ;) But since you are a Buddhist, let me ask you a couple questions to refresh my memory:

Eightfold Path, right? Why are you worried about your money, then? It's just a fetter.

I just wonder how many Conservatives agree that marriage is becoming a rare thing

You're not alone. I see it too. It'll be our doom as surely as Italy's--watch them. That's our future.

I am convinced that there is nothing to be gained for men in a married relationship

You ever read Rousseau? Pick up Emile and read Book V.

marriage is not worth the risk, no matter how nice the woman might be

Bah! Is this the language of a real lover--not just a skilled one, but a real one? Eros doesn't count the cost, and to be cut off from the blissful illusion of eros is a hearty blow to a man's soul.

23 posted on 08/14/2002 7:11:30 PM PDT by Pistias
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To: BuddhaBoy
I am one of those guys who think that men who spend a month's salary on an engagement ring need counseling.

Don't marry. You haven't the heart for it--but who knows, miracles can happen.

24 posted on 08/14/2002 7:13:58 PM PDT by Pistias
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To: Pistias
I was just about to answer you, when the phone rang. Look for my response tommorow, as I have to go. I have a date!
25 posted on 08/14/2002 7:15:59 PM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
When I was a kid, my folks always made me shovel snow and mow the lawn for the old lady next door.

She was alone, and had no folks to care for her.

Enjoy your freedom - nothin left to loose, right?

Meanwhile, I will enjoy my wife of 15 years, and my three kids.

26 posted on 08/14/2002 7:16:12 PM PDT by patton
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To: BuddhaBoy
"Men see marriage as a final step in a prolonged process of growing up."

Says who?

27 posted on 08/14/2002 7:18:38 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Paleo Conservative
>>And it is getting easier and easier to search the whole planet for the most desirable mate<<

True, but usually not necessary.

It must be brutally tough for the 22-26 year old guys in America today, but the girls go for the more secure bet all the time.

28 posted on 08/14/2002 7:20:10 PM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: BuddhaBoy
OK, all you committed bachelors. Back when many of you weren't born (try 1974) my wife and I were, as you say co-habitating. In fact we "co-habitated" for over two years. At the ripe old age of thirty, with some pressure from my wife's family and my employer, I (we), decided to tie the knot. Twenty-eight years later we are still happily married ...
Bachlerhood was great, part of those vulnerable years were spent in monk like conditions in the Marine Corps, however I'm pleased I waited ... I married a great lady. Hope you're as fortunate ...
29 posted on 08/14/2002 7:20:21 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: BuddhaBoy
LOL, cute.
30 posted on 08/14/2002 7:20:43 PM PDT by Pistias
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To: Jim Noble
Perhaps the custom of a woman's family paying a dowry might come back in order to induce men to marry their daughters.
31 posted on 08/14/2002 7:22:04 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: BuddhaBoy
just because I might have in the past said nice things to her, and let her live in my house

You're right. You shouldn't get married, since you have no idea what marriage is.

32 posted on 08/14/2002 7:24:55 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: BuddhaBoy
You said you just wondered how many Conservatives agree that marriage is becoming a rare thing -
I wouldn't call it "rare" yet, but I do agree that today's men aren't in any hurry. After all, the permissive attitude of of young people, today, makes marriage even less attractive than it otherwise would be.

You have a perfect right to never get married if that's what you desire. I've known people who've chosen the single life and were perfectly happy in so doing - also I've known people who made that choice and turned out to be the most miserable/difficult people to deal with that you could imagine, but I think that those people just spent too many years only caring about "self", and didn't develop social skills.

My advice to you would be: Do what you want to, but, as another poster said, just don't bring any unwanted children into the world.
33 posted on 08/14/2002 7:25:02 PM PDT by GVNR
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To: patton
Wonderful point. Young and single and partying is one thing.

It is quite another to be old and utterly alone. No mate, no children to help you, no one to leave your special things to. How sad that is.

[sigh] now that I am depressed....
34 posted on 08/14/2002 7:28:06 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: BuddhaBoy
You are also giving up any emotional connections. You are young now, but how will you feel when you are old and alone? And are you really happy about not having anyone to share life's ups and downs with?
If you would really rather have money than someone who loves you, that's fine. And if you really like people you meet on a 2 week vacation more than people who have a life-long attachment, that's fine, too.

But some of us (like me) think you are opting for an empty (but maybe lucrative) life.

35 posted on 08/14/2002 7:31:59 PM PDT by speekinout
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To: BuddhaBoy
After coming VERY close to getting married myself (we broke it off one month before), I am very skittish about marrige. I'm not against the idea, and I think there are lots of great women out there that I could be perfectly happy with. However, first off, right now in my life I just don't have the time to do any serious dating and I probably won't until after I finish residency. Also, since I'm now in a position to be discretionary, I will be, period. I'm not wasting time and energy unless I find a woman who fits my qualifications (and it isn't "supermodel").

As well as this I have met quite a few VERY nice PT, dental, medical, and nursing students. None of them I think I'd want to marry (personality conflicts mostly), but all of them nice, attractive, and just down for a good time (and that doesn't always mean partying and sex). I'm enjoying being single and I think more people should give it a shot, if they're in a position to of course.

36 posted on 08/14/2002 7:40:28 PM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: LindaSOG
Ping Sweetie!
37 posted on 08/14/2002 7:40:49 PM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: HairOfTheDog
Get thee to a church. The matrons will take care of it, postehaste. IMHO.

Friend of mine in Germany lost her husband a couple of years ago - she was telling me about how her friends would no longer associate with her. She was a "threat" - might take their husbands.

How silly.

But none of us wants to be alone.

Humans are pack animals. Anybody who has not recognized this is...well, not quite aware.

38 posted on 08/14/2002 7:40:58 PM PDT by patton
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To: patton
I would trust the matrons!

Matchmaker Matchmaker make me a match.....
39 posted on 08/14/2002 7:42:57 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: BuddhaBoy
If risking losing some money, if you ever got a divorce after marrying someone, is your biggest concern, all you would have to do is get a prenuptuil (sp?) agreement to take care of that issue.
40 posted on 08/14/2002 7:44:21 PM PDT by Born in a Rage
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To: BuddhaBoy
Gee and here I thought marriage was a holy thing to Buddists as well....this will be news to some Vietnamese women I know....
41 posted on 08/14/2002 7:45:53 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: Ciexyz
At least they want you to commit to funding their shopping and side adventures.
42 posted on 08/14/2002 7:49:45 PM PDT by Righty1
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To: Ciexyz
Have you ever considered that your reasoning screams the phrase, Me-Me-Me?

Funny you should say that about a man who wishes not to get married. For that also seems to be the standard phrase of women in divorce court!

Marriage can be a wonderful thing if it works out however. I've been very fortunate in my marriage. And as a bonus, my wife has a career of her own so we have managed to double our income together while having the expenses of one. We are definitely better off financially married than we would be single. Just thought I'd mention that to offset the notion that men living single are better off financially. That is not always so. But I have no doubt that if I ever ended up in divorce court, I'd be taken to the cleaners even though my wife makes more than me. The court system is rigged in favor of women and that's just the way it is.

43 posted on 08/14/2002 7:52:59 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: BuddhaBoy
"I am one of those guys who think that men who spend a month's salary on an engagement ring need counseling."

But you said you enjoy spending money on women. What do you care how someone else spends his money? Se la vis, right? By the way, I spent closer to two months salary, the salary being that of a senior level profesional. It was all part of the mating ritual and, after fourteen years, I get as much enjoyment seeing that rock on my wife's hand as she gets from wearing it.

Having said all that... some of your reasons for not wanting to get married are quite sane (legal risk, social preferences, etc.) others are naive (anything to do with sex). I strongly suspect the methods and questions used in the subject survey were too biased to be worth more than a good discussion. Some of the flaws have already been pointed out, like the unreasoned "biological clock" comment. My strongest objection to the "survey" is the fabricated idea that anybody gets married for sex. It's as far from the reality of human nature and marriage as it can get. Equating a marriage license with a license to have sex just feeds the feminist propaganda that marriage is a form of legalized prostitution. I would love to get a peek at that questionaire to see how they got guys to admit to a false premise, It's quite telling that there is no quantifiable data presented in this so-called "study."

44 posted on 08/14/2002 7:53:53 PM PDT by Harrison Bergeron
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To: patton
On the other hand, having a family is no guarantee you'll have someone to take care of you when you are old. Nursing homes and retirement communities are full of grandparents who rarely, if ever, get visits.
45 posted on 08/14/2002 7:54:49 PM PDT by flyervet
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To: BuddhaBoy
Having been through the marriage mill once, I can say that when it was good, it was very good, and when it was bad, it was the worst. I was married for 16 years, and have been divorced for 11. I have 3 kids who would make any man proud, all grown and on their own. My marriage was good for the first 6 years, and increasingly bad for the last 10. I know I made mistakes, I took her for granted, I assumed that she would always be there, because I took my vows seriously, and I thought she did, too. Well, she didn't. I left when it was plain that it would not get better, she had cheated on me and hurt me to the point where my heart just wouldn't accept her anymore. It cost me more money than I had ever seen at one time, and I had to start over again, both literally and figuratively.

My wife was the 2nd woman I'd ever had sex with. Since then, I've had long periods with no sex, and several periods where I got all I wanted with almost no effort. It has been empty, though, because there was no permanent committment, no true love to enhance and expand the act into what I know it can be. My life is peaceful, if somewhat lonely and boring at times, but stress is not even on the radar in my life. Still, I want a companion, a lover, a wife to share my life with. I didn't feel that way for a long time. I felt as you, that there was no compelling reason to ever do that again.

Would I marry again? Yes, to the right woman. I know what I'm looking for, I know what I want, and I'll know when I've found her. I may already have, but the logistics are not in my favor right now. If it isn't her, then another will come along. I'm not so naive as to think there's only one woman in the whole world that is right for me...there are thousands I could be happy with. All I have to do is find one.

I'm not ugly or fat, I have a good job, my finances are getting better all the time, I am healthy, look younger than my 50 years, and still have the energy of a man half my age. I love children (I have 4 grandchildren now), and I have the benefit of some wisdom while still being able to have fun. I can understand and relate to a lot of what was said in the article, but ultimately I know that man was not meant to be alone. I will find the right woman, and when I do, I will gladly marry her, because for both of us it will be for life. I won't settle for anything less than that.

46 posted on 08/14/2002 7:58:24 PM PDT by nobdysfool
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To: SamAdams76
Rent and watch "The Family Man" with Nicholas Cage. Very good movie on this topic!!
47 posted on 08/14/2002 8:03:20 PM PDT by X-Servative
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To: flyervet
Granted, but no one in my clann has ever seen the inside of a nursing home, except to visit friends.

Not in our culture. No way.

On the other hand, read "the jilting of granny weatheral" - we all die alone.

48 posted on 08/14/2002 8:03:32 PM PDT by patton
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To: BuddhaBoy
6. They are waiting for the perfect soul mate, and she hasn't yet appeared.

Always worth waiting for, no matter how long it takes.

Trust me :-)

49 posted on 08/14/2002 8:05:10 PM PDT by Darth Sidious
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
"Men see marriage as a final step in a prolonged process of growing up."

Says who?

LOL!

Final step my eye! Three and a half weeks into marriage and my new bride is saying I'm more childlike than ever. Marriage really is a fountain of youth (well, spiritually anyway :-)

50 posted on 08/14/2002 8:08:05 PM PDT by Darth Sidious
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