Posted on 08/15/2002 8:59:01 AM PDT by Korth
Not so. They had a lot of options. The British and the French both considered the 'Indians' to be masters of their own lands and dealt with them as such. They were very skillful at playing one side against the other.
We have NOT been privy to much of the history of the beginning of our country in regards to Indians and the concepts of self government they had and were incorporated into our own nations documents.
So have I. I'm tired of being nice and begging MY REPRESENTATIVES to act. It's time to send DC an ultimatum; Secure our borders, or we will.
What do you think of having people call their senators, on a specific day and hour, all with the same message; "Senator we're not asking, we're telling you, secure our borders, or we will."? I'm sure conservitave groups (C.C.C.) and groups fighting illegals (American Patrol) would be willing to do what they can. If all the small groups and indivudals, who whine and complain, would get together, we could put the fear of G-d into our "leaders". Most people can't afford to fly to Washington to protest, but can afford a few long distance phone calls.
My husband keeps telling me nothing can be done. I want to prove him wrong. I want to show the world that Americans still have a spine.
Stultis: Nope. Sorry, but jpsb is right (in this limited respect) about us neo-cons, and your claim is nonsense.
A person is a good or a service? I suppose in a slaveowning society he can be, but slavery was abolished in this country. Labor is a good, but a person is much more than just his labor. If you import labor, you also import a person who will likely have children that he wants to send to our schools. He will need housing, which increases crowding. He most likely will be inclined to vote for Democrats given that he is poor and a member of a racial minority group. etc. etc. etc.
If you have free flow of goods and services, importing labor for the most part is unnecessary. How? By having the work done in Mexico or wherever, and then importing in product. Granted this is not possible for some types of labor, such as childcare, dishwashing, farm work, etc but it is possible for the vast majority of work that is done by immigrants.
Of course there is a labor market, just as there are markets for goods and services.
Where did I say otherwise? (WDISO for short)
Equally clearly, the movement of laborers (or their entries into or out of different occupations) certainly does effect the labor market.
WDISO? tightening up our border with Mexico has actually made the immigration problem worse. Your average Mexican peasant understands the labor market much better than you appear to. He comes to the America (yes, often crossing the border illegally) when there are jobs to be had. When jobs are not available he heads back to Mexico where he can live cheaply, or use the money he earned in America to buy building materials for the home he is building for his retirement.
Nonsense. Even Mexicans with greencards who are free to travel back and forth don't do it. They stay. Why? Because they can always live better here. The job market is always better here.
Study after study has shown that the population of Mexican illegals in America at any one time tracks the job market almost exactly.
Sure. The more desperate they are the more likely they are to make the risky journey North. Big surprise.
That is, it did until we began to tighten up the border. Now illegals know that if they leave America it may be nearly impossible, or at least very expensive or dangerous, to return. Now, instead of traveling back and forth, tracking the labor market, they stay regardless, and, when the labor market is down, consume food stamps rather than contribute withholding taxes.
They never traveled back and forth. Even when the job market is bad here, it is almost always better than back in Mexico. Again, most Mexian aliens living in the US are LEGAL. They have greencards. They can freely travel back and forth. They don't do it (except perhaps to visit relatives or for vacation). Why?
What we "neo-cons" believe, or at least what this neo-con believes, is that a sensible immigration policy is one that will allow as many who are willing to work, and able to find and keep work, to come to the country and remain in the country.
Typical neo-con thinking, or should I say lack of thinking. All you care about are jobs and money, never stopping to consider all the undesirable social effects of a large population of foriegners, resentful of the US and beneficiars of racial quotas at the expense of natives, who refuse to assimlate. It is not surpriseing neocons fail to consider these things since they all live in nice secluded lilly-white gated communities that are insulated from them.
IOW, fill the available job market with legal immigrants.
Why not Americans? And don't give me that nonsense that they do jobs Americans won't do. Americans did all those jobs before we had mass immigration. They don't anymore because mass immigration drove down their wages.
At the same time paths to citizenship which are transparent and available to all with a clean record as visa holders, but which require a thorough education in American governance and values, should be made available.
I have a nice bridge to sell you. A thorough education in American governance and values! LOL! What fantasy world are you living in?
Immigrants have a higher welfare participation rate than do natives. They are young, but on average they make little money, and hence aren't much help for "saving" social security.
Take Pakistanis, for example. First and second generation immigrants from this poor, third world country actually earn more than the average American (same is true of Indians, who have very similar demographics as far as immigrants). Why? Because they are the most highly educated immigrant group America has ever had.
Pakistanis are not representative of the immigrant population as a whole. Most immigrants today don't even have the equivalent of a high school dimploma.
Not that facts matter to the hysterical anti-immigrant paleo-conservatives, or their friends in the big labor left.
Actually, its usually the neocons who ignore the facts. Most, I find, live in a fantasy world.
You might want to drop by for a look-see some time.
Yes, my ancestors came from somewhere other than North America. As did yours and everyone else's including those of the Native Americans.
This doesn't mean we have to allow it happen again or allow our country to be turned into "Little (insert country-names)"
I think we can do without all of them, just as we can do without the politicians who want them here.
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