Posted on 08/19/2002 2:07:59 PM PDT by Don Joe
1) Don't have sex out of wedlock (difficult in our depraved society, I know) and/or remain faithful to the marriage vows at all cost during the children's minority.
Irrelevant. Most divorces aren't caused by infidelity.
2) Allow parents for whom divorce is inevitable to craft their own solution in accordance with the family's previously established standard of living and needs of the children (I think that' s where you're at.)
a) They already can make their own arrangements and do where allowable. That just allows the well off and/or mutually reasonable people to escape most of the horrors of family court.
b) You can't support two households (with the same income that supported one previously) and maintain the same standard-of-living for both. That's a fundamental part of the problem here - fathers are made to live out of cars when the wife already makes $200,000 a year (of course, those are just the empowered, vindictive type women that can afford enough lawyer time to make their ex's life a living hell).
3) Recede from "no fault" divorce back to a fault-based system in which the party who chooses to abandon the marriage would be required to rebut a presumption of parental fitness.
This presupposes that vindictive or whorish women or philandering men are necessarily stupid. They aren't. This would just give them either a "license to kill" within their marriages to force their spouse to leave first or give them an even bigger reason to falsely cry "child abuse" or "spousal abuse" to get the court on their side first. That's not an improvement.
4) Allow either parent to divest him-or herself of all legal responsibilty for the child.
Really?? Including child support? And this will help how??
If these are the best solutions you have, you are wasting your time.
While I don't believe a parent's income has anything to do with a legitimate mandate by the state for support (DNA Rules), I would add that most so-called victims are standing up against government oppression, not legitimate support orders. As a citizen, it is our duty to oppose such oppression. What they are "bringing on themselves" is the fight that we all should be joining.
The point often lost in this discussion is the purpose of the act that authorizes the establishment of a child support order in the first place (to collect support owed to "dependent children" by "absent parents"), and the limitations on the state's parens patriae powers. The state cannot dictate what parents spend on their children whether they are separated or married. Some of the proposals for change espoused here, likewise, exceed this limitation.
Well, more than $39,000 per year could very well be $39,001 per year. Assuming a figure close to $39,000, that would equal about $750 per week BEFORE taxes, about $525 per week AFTER taxes. Now subtract $350 from $525, and you have $175 per week to live off of.
That would barely pay the rent, never mind food, electricity, phone, heat, gas to get to work and back, car maintenance, clothes, and any gifts he might want to buy his children on their birthdays or for Christmas....
While the million dollar a year football player deserves to get slapped for his failure to pay child support, the above example is more typical of what is really going on this country as far as those labeled as "deadbeats".
And many mothers who SHOULD be ordered to pay child support AREN'T ordered to do so..
This is my point. An amendment to an act cannot expand the class it was intended to affect, or the evil it was sought to cure (purpose), as was expressly stated in the act and confirmed by multiple courts since then. If the guidelines law is not unconstitutional as it is applied, it is unconstitutional on it's face. The bottom line is the limited power delegated to this administrative agency (under Title IV-D), and the courts, acting under such authority.
So basically what you're saying is that you're proud of the fact that you post a reply without having actually read what was said, because Real Men enjoy making utter fools of themelves by 1) buying into the feminist claptrap lock stock and barrel, and 2) insulting men for saying the exact opposite of what they've actually said.
Wow, I've never met an actual human gelding before.
Did it hurt?
"The guidelines were there to protect the non-custodial parent, not the other. The amount of the ongoing award or the amount calculated for reimbursement of past support cannot be so much that it impoverishes the non-custodial parent"Good grief don't tell me anyone actually believes this hogwash!
I'm afraid you missed the point. This was the original intent, and the only use that passes a constitutional test. I wasn't talking about current misuse (unconstitutional application). If you think you have a better handle on the legislative history of this act, I'm sure we would all welcome any evidence you may have.
Um, in a word, no.
I'm afraid YOU "missed the point".
Your original post, which I quoted in my reply, is couched in the present tense.
Read for comprehension, OK?
Yup. It's child's play (to coin a phrase) to create as many "deadbeats" as the agitprop du jour demands. Simply ratchet up the size of the tribute until the necessary percentage of men cannot pay, and voila, Instant Deadbeat Dads in any required number.
And that is exactly what is happening.
The blinded fools who taunt men by telling them to shut up and take it and/or shut up and pay it, are the same sort of blinded fools who cheered on Stalin's thugs as they rounded up farmers who were "unable to meet their quotas."
Same sh!t different country.
So, when did the purpose of the child support program change? Like I said, the act has only been amended. The subject matter is the same as it was from the beginning. Maybe I wasn't clear, but the child support program (including guidelines) was an amendment to the Social Security Act of 1935, dealing with the same class.
Also: Do the courts or administrative agencies provide evidence of subject matter jurisdiction on the record as required of any limited jurisdiction tribunal? No. What evidence? Evidence the children in question are, or are likely to become dependent on the public for support, without contribution from an "absent parent". It is critical people understand what this term of art means. It is described in the act, state statutes and rules. If this is not proven, and it cannot be presumed, the order of this court is void.
I guess I should feel good for having backed you into the double corner of the checkerboard, but frankly I have zero tolerance for protracted stalemates.
First you argue that it's the case. I laugh at that, and you correct me by insisting that it was the case in the past. I correct you by pointing out that you used the present tense, and now you come back to square one, again insisting that it is the case.
Good bye. I don't feed trolls.
Yes, and it's the "non-welfare cases" part that most people don't understand. It's clear in the congressional reports they were dealing with those who were at risk of needing public assistance, without contributions from absent parents. A look at this case, Sullivan v. Stroop, 496 U.S. 478 (1990) will add clarification on the "absent parent"/"dependent child" parameters. The court describes "child support" as a term of art, and that Title IV-D was meant to work in tandem with Title IV-A (AFDC).
I asked for clarification and proof, not more of your tripe.
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