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U.S. Agents Arrest Dozens of Fathers in Support Cases
New York Times ^ | 8/16/02 | ROBERT PEAR

Posted on 08/19/2002 2:07:59 PM PDT by Don Joe

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To: the_daug
47% of pre tax income seems a little extream

Depends on how many kids he had. For four that is not all that much. He would have had to spend more than that had he stayed married. Obviously you have no idea how expensive it is to raise kids.

Stay married and you never need worry about child support.

I have a hard time believing some guy went to jail for being four weeks late and on unemployment, unless he fruduently claimed he had no support obligation. Then he should have gone to jail.

Feds steped in on 100 cases. You people have a cow. Give me a break. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The cost of a little fun can and often is very high.

21 posted on 08/19/2002 4:17:01 PM PDT by ImphClinton
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To: taxcontrol
Did I miss something here? Did Congress pass a law that enables Federal agents to prosocute State warrents? What gives?????

yes, the republicans passed this law, clintong signed it into law, and a giant portion of state and federal law enforcment dollars now go to hunting down men who cannot pay their support, for imprisonment as debtors who cannot pay their bills. STATES collect interest on the debt, and poundage on the principle. from 10-15 percent, compounded of course.

nice scam. republicrats voted it in... called it "right to work" "welfare reform" and "parental responsibility" legislation... yee ha.

and like all morons, YOU ignorantly assumed that the role of the federal government was national defence and such...

every state law, is in the process of being federalized. that is the nature of centralized socialism. It's here, it's growing, and it's way past the point we can do anything about it but bend over and take it up the kazoo....

ANY law can be federalized, and one day, it will, not long from now...

war on drugs
war on guns
war on terror
war on dads who cannot pay
war on the kids of dads who cannot pay
war on men in general
war on sex
war on internet porn
war on internet violence
war on sites just like this one where people speak out
war on truth....

it's all here, in one form or another. Meanwhile the religious right rejoices over the cancellation of a small portion of the federal budget to support international abortions in family planning clinics abroad... or school vouchers for private schools in one or two cities. WE are so pathetic.

Bush is really turning the tables on the liberal feministas and radical social central planners ain't he? Sure he is.

And Islam is a peaceful religion too.

NEVER FORGET, every problem has a federal solution...
22 posted on 08/19/2002 4:17:20 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2
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To: Don Joe
Please ping those you think would be interested/make positive contributions

What would you consider positive like you think arresting guys who make 5-7 dollars an hour at a crappy job can afford to pay .....or..... is it just a bunch of guys living large on 35 -50 bucks an hour and just dont want to be burdened with a child and responcability ?

Im one of those eight dollar an hour guys who pays his support while the ex spends it on drugs and booze yet my kid is in her custody and im paying for her fun while she lives the stoned life and the court through its infinite wisdom says shes the better parent no matter what proof i show shes not GO FIGURE just curious about your thoughts .

23 posted on 08/19/2002 4:19:11 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: ImphClinton
"47% of pre tax income seems a little extream"

"Depends on how many kids he had. For four that is not all that much. He would have had to spend more than that had he stayed married. Obviously you have no idea how expensive it is to raise kids."

Obviously you didn't read before going into full-auto-keyboard-punching mode.

"James A. Circle, says he earned more than $39,000 a year and had been ordered to pay $350 a week for a child in New Jersey"

24 posted on 08/19/2002 4:19:31 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: Robert_Paulson2

Ah geez....... anyone got some kleenex
25 posted on 08/19/2002 4:19:38 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: ImphClinton
"I have a hard time believing some guy went to jail for being four weeks late and on unemployment, unless he fruduently claimed he had no support obligation. Then he should have gone to jail."

If you have a hard time believing that, then you are clearly out of your element and should cease and desist from weighing in with your wisdom. Men are routinely jailed solely on the basis of dollars versus calendar, "extinuating circumstances" not allowed to be entered into evidence.

26 posted on 08/19/2002 4:21:12 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
"just curious about your thoughts"

I have expressed my thoughts on this matter quite a bit here on FR over the past months and years. Stick around, perhaps I'll express them again at some point.

Otherwise, please accept my apology for informing you that I do not jump when someone barks out "Jump!"

27 posted on 08/19/2002 4:24:09 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: Don Joe
I can tell you from experience ( I worked in Support Collections for 7 miserable years ), the Feds do this about once a year-mostly for the publicity.

Most of the "absent parents" are hauled before a Family Court judge in a day or two, forced to beg, borrow, or steal a certain amount,then cut loose.

No pretense is ever made of fairness, justice, etc. In one jurisdiction, the proceedings are called " Pay or Stay " Days, and the only real object is to squeeze enough money out of the "Delinquent Dads" to justify part of the cost of the big roundup.

28 posted on 08/19/2002 4:34:40 PM PDT by genefromjersey
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To: SouthernFreebird
every little doggie has her day.

29 posted on 08/19/2002 4:37:22 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2
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To: Don Joe
Not for being four weeks late are fathers jailed. Justice doesn't work that fast. I am sure that was just part of the story. He has most likely been consistantly late and the judge didn't buy this excuse this time.

Now I will agree that more work needs to be done about making the system more fair. We need father's rights. These men need to get together and push for better laws. It is better than it used to be in most states fathers now at least stand a chance of being the CP receiving support. Used to be that almost never happened.

Thing is men don't pay for years then start paying. They see that 47% of their pay is going to this woman they hate and quit or get fired. They don't want to pay so they lie and say they don't owe support. That get's them in jail. The lie not the money.

If you lie to a credit card company to get a credit card you can also go to jail.

30 posted on 08/19/2002 4:37:27 PM PDT by ImphClinton
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To: Don Joe
for a child in New Jersey"

If "a" ment that he had only one child. I doubt how many children were involved was in the information given out. Then he must have been making a lot more before. If he is now making less he is responsible to go to court and try to get the amount lowered. But he owed at least $10,000 so that is still a lot of weeks he didn't pay.

31 posted on 08/19/2002 4:43:53 PM PDT by ImphClinton
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To: ImphClinton
"Not for being four weeks late are fathers jailed. Justice doesn't work that fast."

You just don't get it. AT ALL.

Years ago, before I got custody, I was threatened with jail for being THREE weeks late.

Why was I three weeks late?

Well, it crept up on me over the course of about six months. A day here, a couple of days there, always making the weekly payment, but slip-sliding away as it were.

Eventually, those "days" added up to the majick three weeks, and in was hauled my ass.

I tried to explain to His Majesty that my $75 a week (out of which I was paying $35) was made more difficult by the fact that I also had to buy my kids stuff like winter coats and boots that my ex REFUSED to provide out of the money I DID pay. (As I mentioned earlier, she made a grand scene of telling them she was getting herself "something nice" with the "child" support checks when they arrived.)

His Majesty simply ordered me to STFU, and then proceeded to f*cking LECTURE me on how I had to face up to my f'n RESPONSIBILITY to "provide for my children".

I have utter contempt for "the system", and even GREATER contempt for fools who blindly and IGNORANTLY defend it.

Yes, that would be the likes of you.

32 posted on 08/19/2002 5:18:39 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: ImphClinton
That's got to be the lamest pile 'o spin I've seen in a hound's age.

Did you ever work for the Clinton Regime?

33 posted on 08/19/2002 5:19:54 PM PDT by Don Joe
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PS: My ex's household income at that point was approx. $50,000/yr. My "income" was actually negative -- I was running a business that was being driven into the ground by the custody case (hard to pay for stuff like "inventory" when suppliers won't ship because the money that should have gone to them goes to lawyers etc.)

I was running a net loss, but His Majesty and the Royal Drones didn't give a rat's ass. They demanded that I claim "income", so, I took the amount of money that I bled away from the store to try to keep the lights on and some food on the table, and then was ordered to give about half of it to my whore ex (I use the term literally, by the way, so spare me the lecture).

So out of her fifty grand a year, AND the $35/wk from me, she was able to provide the kids with precisely... nothing.

HER "accountability" in this situation?

Zero.

Nice system.

34 posted on 08/19/2002 5:24:08 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
Im one of those eight dollar an hour guys who pays his support while the ex spends it on drugs and booze . . . and the court through its infinite wisdom says shes the better parent no matter what proof i show shes not GO FIGURE just curious about your thoughts .

Wrong stuff obviously happens. The question is why are the Feds in this? A system run amuck, to say the least.

I'm wondering what you believe should happen in your situation?

35 posted on 08/19/2002 5:26:32 PM PDT by toddst
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To: Don Joe
In your situation I don't blame you for not saying where you are. You and others in your situation can't pay anything if you are jailed. What are the Feds thinking about?
36 posted on 08/19/2002 5:30:50 PM PDT by toddst
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To: ImphClinton
I will not go into details on my case that just ended but to say I am never late on my support. I have two boys 11 and 14. TO this day, because a magistrate believes "fake checks" and other clever uses of notorized testimony of day-care, I have been paying extra for "work-related" daycare for years. I just got done getting burned for uninsured medical that went back to 1991 for $5 here and 15 here so on and so forth until the amount ended around $3000. I had never seen these bills from the past until I disputed paying a psychiatrist bill for riddelin.

Ex told me if I did'nt pay it, I would end up in court for other bills dating back to 1991. I said "You cannot get money for something 10 years old that you are just now presenting....I lost!

During this 3 year ordeal, she made visitation pure hell. I saw my boys 75% less..and she told me she would do that if I didn't pay up. IT HAPPENS!! Believe me, fighting it in court doesn't help if the custodial parent(especially a woman) has no integrity. The courts will believe the woman on almost anything.

Bottom line...these amounts are skewed. Man cannot claim deduction and woman doesn't have to claim support as income. If man wants to quit job, court will impose old salary until new salary exceeds it, then new will take over.

Either you are only one-sided and unfair or you are just ignorant of the prejudices against men in these matters.

37 posted on 08/19/2002 5:38:25 PM PDT by bakatare
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To: Don Joe; RogerFGay; Harrison Bergeron; Brytani; farmfriend
"First, they came for the fathers..."

Accurate line. And entirely true.

38 posted on 08/19/2002 5:39:04 PM PDT by DNA Rules
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To: bakatare
Amen to everything you said.

After I finally got custody -- after ten years of DOCUMENTING unspeakable abuses committed on my children by my ex -- she was allowed to skip out on paying ME child support.

Cute system, eh?

Here's how one woman in Michigan managed to avoid paying child support when she lost custody (no URL, it arrived in today's email headlines from the local teevee station):

BRIDGE SEARCH: After a weekend of rough waters and bad weather, rescue
teams resumed their search around 6:00 this morning for a woman police
believe jumped from the Mackinaw Bridge with her infant daughter. Now,
divers are using sonar equipment to help in the search. So far, they've
scanned the area directly beneath the bridge, but have had no luck.
Police say 21 year old Mindy Lou Arnett abandoned her car on the east side
of the bridge in the northbound lane early Thursday morning. Arnett's
from Stockbridge, in Ingham County, near Lansing. Inside her car was a
half empty baby bottle, a diaper bag, and the her purse. Court records
show Arnett struggled with drug and emotional problems, and had attempted
suicide before. She also lost a custody battle over her six month old
daughter, Jersey.
39 posted on 08/19/2002 5:42:10 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: ravingnutter
>>.if you create a life you are responsible for the child...man or woman, makes no difference<<

And the Federal law enforcement effort to make sure that mothers live up to their responsibilities is...?

40 posted on 08/19/2002 6:09:12 PM PDT by Jim Noble
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