Remember Ruby Ridge: Ten years later, there are still important lessons.

National Review Online ^ | August 21, 2002 | Timothy Lynch

[billbears]

Hindsite is 20/20, it all could have been handled better

You've got that right!!

The FBI snipers had not yet announced their presence and had not given the Weavers an opportunity to peacefully surrender.

Tell me, exactly in what order, whether it be executive or congressional, were the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution suspended? The FBI didn't even bother announcing itself!! They just started opening fire. According to you while I sit here at the computer if the FBI feels I have done something wrong they can take me out from across the street?

If these men weren't WHACKED-OUT KOOKS who HATE anything different than their selfish little world view, a lot of people would be alive today.

Maybe if the general government's troops had bothered following the Constitution of these United States and announced themselves it might have worked out a bit better too!! Whacked out kooks? You might want to check your history Johnny, these United States were started by what I imagine you'd call 'Whacked Out Kooks'

[NMC EXP]

I have voted straight ticket Republican for 20 years and I don't see that ever changing. I am just tired of being associated with what I call "Whacked-Out Kooks".

And you accuse others of whacked out kookery?

Regards

J.R.

[Johnny Shear]

The 24 children at Waco were "kooks"

No. They were innocent, of course. And died because the adult Branch Davadian were suicidal maniacs who chose to burn themselves and their BABIES alive rather than simply WALK-OUT of thier home. Just like the SURVIVING Brach Davadians had done previously. (Which ONLY adds proof as to their Wacked-Out state).

[gatex]

"... rather than simply WALK-OUT of thier home..."

You mislead again by ommitting that the FBI fired flashbangs at any Davidian who came outside - to force them back inside.

"The FBI was afraid of a mass breakout..." (source- FBI agent Clint Van Zandt on the Geraldo show. Van Zandt was at Waco).

[Maelstrom]

Amazing.

Stop for a moment and think about the implications from people like Johnny Shear and one_particular_harbour.

Who's going to know what happened to you...your extended family...your entire village...

...If some Federal Agency arbitrarily decided to slaughter each and every single one of you?

The Johnny Shear's and the one_particular_harbour's of the world would instantly insist that you had it coming for whatever weak excuse drummed up, even if proven conclusively false.

[Maelstrom]

AND THEN

There are our own "Constitutionalists" who are going to say that because the US government is a representative Democracy, 'of the people, by the people', you deserved to be slaughtered because you are the people, and collectively voted your killers into power.

[dd5339]

"Politely cooperating with authorities"

It's kind of hard to cooperate when the trial date gets moved a month in advance of when you were told it was to be. Oh, the government also neglected to tell Mr. Weaver of that simple fact.

I guess you've chosen to ignore that multiple posts that make this simple fact clear but I had to try one more time.

As others have suggested you might want to get your facts straigh before running off at the keyboard.

Semper Fi

[Johnny Shear]

What part of "COOPERATE WITH AUTHORITITES" don't you understand?????

Look.....These FREAKS Randy Weaver and David Koresh were a couple of IDIOTS just looking for a fight. Acting like they are above the rest of us in society...Acting like they make their own rules.

I'm GLAD Koresh is dead. Now, he can't brain-wash anymore IDIOTS and talk them into burning themselves to death and KILLING their own INNOCENT children! As for Weaver, the racist BAFOON brought all his problems on himself. He's got ONLY himself to blame.

And you FOOLS who worship at their alters aren't much better. You're a bunch of FREAKS yourselves.

[dd5339]

Gee, it must be horrible to not be able to read, or maybe it is the lack of ability to form a cognizant arguement. (Oh damn, there I go again using big words when arguing with a liberal!)

You can't cooperate with someone when they have changed the rules of the game in mid game. That is just what the Federal Court did to Mr. Weaver. They moved up his appearance date by one, (1) month and did not tell him about the new date.

As for Koresh, there was never any proof of drugs, (there were none), child molestation, (baseless allegations by an out of control justice department), or illegal weapons, (all weapons in the facility were legal). The FBI executed the raid poorly. They waited till he was inside his property, indoors, and in close proximity to his fellow believers and his weapons. They could have arrested him easily out on his morning five, (5) mile run when he was wearing a t-shirt, running shorts, and running shoes. He ran the same route every morning, it would have been child's play to bring him into custody.

Then again, why am I wasting time talking to someone who will not wake up and see what the facts are when they are staring them in the face.

Semper Fi

[MileHi]

The New York Times was duped into describing a family (two parents, three children) and one adult friend as "an armed separatist brigade."

Let me fix this:

The New York Times was duped into describing a couldn't wait to describe the family (two parents, three children) and one adult friend as "an armed separatist brigade."

That's better

[lewislynn]

On August 21, 1992 a paramilitary unit of the U.S. Marshals Service ventured onto the 20-acre property known as Ruby Ridge.

-------

During the night, FBI snipers took positions around the Weaver cabin. There is no dispute about the fact that the snipers were given illegal "shoot to kill" orders. Under the law, police agents can use deadly force to defend themselves and others from imminent attack, but these snipers were instructed to shoot any adult who was armed and outside the cabin, regardless of whether the adult posed a threat or not.

August 21, 1992 ?...That would have been daddy Bush's administration/Justice Dept..

[dd5339]

"August 21, 1992 ?...That would have been daddy Bush's administration/Justice Dept..

You are correct, the same President who gave us the 89 assault weapons ban.

This was one of the reasons that I voted Perot in 92. However I learned that lesson the hard way.

I don't think though that GH was that involved. The problem stemmed from an out of control alphabet soup orginazation trying to justify their existence.

Semper Fi

[Rowdee]

One big shameful event in the history of a once great nation. Ruby Ridge and Waco should show all citizens they are not exempt from the reach and claws of the fedgov's tyranny.

[gunnedah]

Weaver quite possibly could be affraid or even intimidated.Also he may have had to sign a statement that he would not discuss the facts,you never know. Regardless he went through enough from what I have seen and read.It is a sad state of affairs but government is much more corrupt than most believe or want to believe.I spent 30 years in law enforcement and I no longer have any regard for most of it. That is not to say I dont believe in following the law because I do. But with each passing day the more that happens to the average citizen the more doubt we all will have.I dealt with two EX-FBI agents and know first hand they are capable of outright lying, not making mistakes but lies to build an investigation that is suitable to reach the goals their boss wanted. Then the South Carolina Supreme Court turned around and supported their lies and half-truths and would not even allow me to defend myself.Our so called government is much more suspect than the average citizen believes and when the courts and law enforcement go to deceiving and trumping up charges,what is one to do?Americas leadership is corrupt,conniving and void of morals.There are at least two sets of rules that the courts and Criminal Justice System applies and they apply according to who you are and how much you have to spend.It is terrible to have you fate placed in the hands of those that are corrupt and look out for self interest but it happens more and more everyday.You are either in the so called IN-Crowd or your out on your own.

[gunnedah]

Due Process is not what you may think. The government most certainly can quiten you and not allow you to defend yourself and the news media will go right along with it. I speak from personal knowledge.

[SevenDaysInMay]

You might find Lon Horiuchi to be your kind of guy.

Every glint of reflected sunlight could be from a sniper's scope lense, police and citizen. If police powers of the State include "Shoot to kill", little besides chance protects us. Citizens have the ultimate responsibility to render justice in our society.

[gatex]

"...Stop for a moment and think about the implications from people like ......"

Some people are agents provacateurs intent on destroying this country--also some people are communists.

[gatex]

"...And you FOOLS who worship at their alters aren't much better. You're a bunch of FREAKS yourselves...."

Those who resorts to such attacks are admitting that they have lost the argument.

[gatex]

"...Thank you - you're right...."

Please explain why the FBI killed Vickie Weaver from ambush, without announcing their presence (or any LEO presence ) and not asking anyone to surrender.

[sinkspur]

Guess again, jerkweed.