Church's Growing (Gay) Flock Changes Heart of Texas

The Washington Post ^ | Aug. 25, 2002 | Fethiye

[Fethiye]

DALLAS -- On a sweltering midsummer's Sunday in Dallas, the cavernous Cathedral of Hope is packed with hundreds of congregants. Lively choral music sets toes tapping, and the sermon, about observing the Sabbath, is delivered with warmth and humor.

"Six days shall you shop, but on the seventh day you shall cease from all shopping," Mona West, the pastor, says from the pulpit, her eyes twinkling. "And that includes Home Depot. Or at least two out of four Sundays."

It's a scene straight from Middle America: There is laughter all around and hugs and kisses, too, and after the offertory and communion and much greeting and good cheer, the faithful file happily out of church -- men holding hands with men and women holding hands with women.

"Dallas is changing," said Tim Hurst, a gay 47-year-old real estate agent who attends the Cathedral of Hope with his partner, Jay, 44, a hotel owner. "We've been together four years last month, and this church has been very important to our relationship."

As the largest predominantly gay church in the United States, and possibly the world, the Cathedral of Hope in Dallas is thriving. In doing so, it is challenging old stereotypes about conservatism and intolerance in the nation's ninth-largest city.

[Fethiye]

Do you suppose that every Christian who's church differs from yours on a doctrinal point suffers the same screaming "inner voice" problem?

[BenLurkin]

It is not a question of who is more Christian. It is a question of whether this is even a Christian congregation at all.

Imagine a congregation devoted to giving "acceptance" to adulterers and fornicators, or drunks, or necromancers? These are all things that are clearly NOT in God's will, as made clear in God's word.

Now, can a homosexual or a drunk be a Christian? Absolutely! All that's required is repentance.

[Fethiye]

These people, who call themselves Christians, obviously disagree with your interpretation of scripture. Are they right? I don't know. But obviously you think you do know who's "really" a Christian. It's good to be pope, eh?

[I_Love_My_Husband]

And what Christian denomination does this church belong to? I read the entire fluffy article (also I know about this church and all the fluffy articles written about it for years). There's only been nice fluffy articles written about this church. It's a church. So what? There's loads of churches. You expect accolades because you go to a church? Get real.

The church isn't even affiliated with any Christian religion, and it's been documented that gay churches are pick up places (see a past article here at freep). The point is, being gay is NOT sanctified by God, it will NEVER be. There's a reason for it. You know it. You just want to legitmize (to us at freep) that you're gay and conservative, but you keep pounding us over the head with the fact you're gay. Therein lies the difference. We don't care that your gay. Just be conservative. This is the problem with gay rights, etc. It's all about being homosexual. And getting a *special* place at the table for being gay. Get over yourselves.

[BenLurkin]

Much of scripture is obscure. Passages condemning fornication, drunkeness, homosexuality, idolatry and the like are not.

I will, however respectfully hear and consider an interpretation of scripture by which these things are found, in scripture, to be consistent with the Christian's walk with God.

[PietroA]

Fethiye, I cannot help to notice your arrogant, haughty and pretty silly replies to some of the posters.

Should engage your brain before doing that.

[3catsanadog]

Reminds me of a plaque sold at a card shop I visited not long ago: "What part of Thou Shalt Not don't you understand? - God."

[Fethiye]

I think what's interesting about this article (and the withering response to it here) is that a lot of conservatives "oppose" the fact increasing numbers of gays are living in a manner that would be applauded by conservatives if anybody but gays adopted it. Getting married; adopting children; joining the army; going to church: These are not the actions of social radicals, but of people with traditional values.

So despite the fact that you say "we don't care that you're gay," you obviously do (viz your rather heated post), because for some reason you and a lot of so-called conservatives want to stop gays from involving themselves in the more traditional aspects of society. Why, it's almost as if conservatives want gays to stay as rebels from traditional society! Useful boogie-men, perhaps?

[Doctor Don]

I wonder how large the nursery is? Many churches grow as babies are born into the congregation........no hope here!

[Fethiye]

I will, however respectfully hear and consider an interpretation of scripture by which these things are found, in scripture, to be consistent with the Christian's walk with God.

So you are the judge of all that is, and is not, Christian? Forgive me then; I am not worthy!

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Fethiye, how many gay men are actually in monogamous relationships? I'm not talking about long-term relationships, but actual monogamous ones?

I know, you'll probably tell me that *you* are and you only know other gay men that are, but be honest. The fact remains that more gay men are into transgressive sexual practices than heterosexuals. It is gay men, not straight men that are into toilet/bathroom sex, cruising parks and making them untenable for families and just *normal* people.

IMHO, society, newspapers, MTV and the general culture at large for some reason are promoting homosexuality. It's not a good thing. Even Rosie O admitted it's not a positive thing to be homosexual.

It is good, imho, that more gays are getting more conservative (homocons), but the problem is that they're bringing their ideas of homosexual rights with them from the RATS and that is not something that conservatives want to be bothered with.

To be a true conservative means that you're an American FIRST, you're not a gay person, you're American...and that seems to be the issue. To gays it's GAY FIRST, and everything revolves around homosexuality, which is ridiculous and frankly, off-putting for the rest of us.

[Fethiye]

To be a true conservative means that you're an American FIRST, you're not a gay person, you're American...and that seems to be the issue. To gays it's GAY FIRST, and everything revolves around homosexuality, which is ridiculous and frankly, off-putting for the rest of us.

I disagree, grlfrnd. It's not gay people who are saying "GAY FIRST" when society denies them the privileges of marriage, service to country, etc. It is those opposed to gay participation in traditional insitutions who are, in effect, saying that the single quality of a person's gayness is enough to justify their exclusion from those institutions. It is those opposed to gay assimilation who make (and keep) gayness a big deal.

And about gays shutting up about the fact they are gay; that is not going to happen, ever again. When gays were silent, they were easily divided and more effectively pushed to the margins of society. No self-respecting gay person, no matter how conservative his values, is going to cooperate in restoring himself to pariah status.

[I_Love_My_Husband]

Do you feel you have pariah status now?

Because that is the problem. The non-gays are beaten over the head with gay this, gay that. Gay teachings in schools, gays get promoted because they are gay.

Do you not see this?

[DeaconBenjamin]

Where there's the NEA, there's hope for them.

[Freebird Forever]

Getting married; adopting children; joining the army; going to church: These are not the actions of social radicals, but of people with traditional values.

And I'm sure that you could've found residents of Sodom exhibiting these practices also........ but those factors did not mitigate the JUDGMENT they received for being unrepentant in their practice of perversion.

Hate what God hates & leave it at that.

[arkady_renko]

From the article:

There is no altar... "We are . . . trying to remove barriers for people, and not putting things between people and God," Piazza said."

Gay issues aside - THAT is a terrifying thought for me -- a grave sinner. I want something between me and God and that would be the Blood of Christ.

As a Catholic I would contend that the lack of an altar is not a boasting point for any church.

Regards-
Arkady

[Lizavetta]

Not only that, but they seem to want to make it known to EVERYONE what they are, whether you want to know or not. That's what I resent about it....having this stuff stuck in my face and then being judged on my "tolerance".

The religious of this country seem to be more and more of the "grocery cart" variety....picking and choosing what they want to believe, leaving behind what they don't.

[ImaGraftedBranch]

God's Wrath Against Mankind

¹⁸The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, ¹⁹since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. ²⁰For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
²¹For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. ²²Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ²³and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
²⁴Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. ²⁵They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
²⁶Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. ²⁷In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
²⁸Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. ²⁹They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, ³⁰slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; ³¹they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. ³²Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

This is not "hate against homosexuals." This is the WORD. Read verse 32 again. And again. It is a very strict, plainly stated message from the inspired Word of God that spells out the punishment for such behavior as well.

If these people want to be close to God, they have to bend to HIS will, because he will not bend to the will of people.

[Fethiye]

The non-gays are beaten over the head with gay this, gay that. Gay teachings in schools, gays get promoted because they are gay

As long as gays feel they are irrationally, and therefore wrongly, excluded from the social and legal institutions they seek to join, they have every right to organize to change that. It's a participatory system we have going here, after all.

That said, I personally feel that "gay teachings in schools" can be justified only to the extent necessary to ensure the safety and welfare of students, some of whom are (deny it if you will) gay. And I don't think anyone should be promoted (at his job?) on the sole ground that he is gay; but no one has seriously proposed that.

[Texas_Jarhead]

"The boom at the Cathedral of Hope, which is attracting 350 new members a year and giving $1.3 million annually to local schools, health clinics and charities, suggests that the church..." is actively pushing their homosexual ideology wherever they can buy their way in.

couldn't resist, it just seemed to fit