Multiculturalism and the Fall of Western Civilization

The Clash of Civilizations | 2002 | Samuel P. Huntington

[TopQuark]

Thanks for the article and your thoughtful comments.

[MissAmericanPie]

Fantastic, thanks for posting this.

[Noumenon]

From the essay that you linked:

Civilizations rise and fall, not on the backs of an undifferentiated humanity, but on the ingenuity, heroism, determination and focus of specific people--dynamic and directed individuals--men and women well aware of who they are and whence they came. No civilization can allow social engineers and theorists to tamper with the dynamics that built and sustained it and not expect to pay a terrible price.

The writer gets it.

[Noumenon]

Such a 'wake-up call from Hell' would be a mercy, a severe mercy.

Yes, it would. Better now than later - when it's far too late. If history teaches us anything at all, it is that civilizations might vary according to their achievements, but all have their rise, their zenith and their nadir. We've got no special dispensation from the consequences of some very bad ideas...

[yendu bwam]

A fundamentalist's unyielding adherence to rigid doctrinal and ideological positions may find expression in his or her social and political, as well as religious, attitudes.

Hey tpaine... You mean like adherence to the idea that some stuff is right and some stuff is wrong?

[TopQuark]

Thanks for the article and your thoughtful comments.

[tpaine]

"A fundamentalist's unyielding adherence to rigid doctrinal and ideological positions may find expression in his or her social and political, as well as religious, attitudes."

Hey tpaine... You mean like adherence to the idea that some stuff is right and some stuff is wrong? - YBwam
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Yep. It's the fanatical fundamentalist, those that are firmly convinced that their cause is righteous, and MUST prevail:

"Violent fundamentalists are those who believe that the "rightness" of their cause justifies even the most heinous of crimes. They are right, and others have no rights. Whether "religious" and secular, down through the ages violent fundamentalists have been responsible for terrible atrocities--crusaders slaughtering Muslims, inquisitors torturing heretics, Nazis gassing Jews, communists annihilating counterrevolutionaries, capitalists tyrannizing the poor."

[rdb3]

For later reading.

[Noumenon]

You're quite welcome.

S. P. Huntington bump

[yendu bwam]

Hey tpaine... You mean like adherence to the idea that some stuff is right and some stuff is wrong? - YBwam _________________________________ Yep. It's the fanatical fundamentalist, those that are firmly convinced that their cause is righteous, and MUST prevail: "Violent fundamentalists are those who believe that the "rightness" of their cause justifies even the most heinous of crimes. They are right, and others have no rights. Whether "religious" and secular, down through the ages violent fundamentalists have been responsible for terrible atrocities--crusaders slaughtering Muslims, inquisitors torturing heretics, Nazis gassing Jews, communists annihilating counterrevolutionaries, capitalists tyrannizing the poor."

Well, since you think some things are 'atrocities', you also have your idea of what is right and what is wrong. Guess that makes you a fundamentalist too.

[tpaine]

Yep. It's the fanatical fundamentalist, those that are firmly convinced that their cause is righteous, and MUST prevail:
"Violent fundamentalists are those who believe that the "rightness" of their cause justifies even the most heinous of crimes. They are right, and others have no rights. Whether "religious" and secular, down through the ages violent fundamentalists have been responsible for terrible atrocities--crusaders slaughtering Muslims, inquisitors torturing heretics, Nazis gassing Jews, communists annihilating counterrevolutionaries, capitalists tyrannizing the poor."
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Well, since you think some things are 'atrocities', you also have your idea of what is right and what is wrong. Guess that makes you a fundamentalist too. -- YB
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Not at all. -- I am not urging that governments or groups take action to enforce my views of right/wrong on my peers, counter to the rule of constitutional law.
Fanatical fundamentlists do exactly that. - They seem incapable of 'live & let live'. They MUST be their brothers keeper.
Their wish to use force is the problem, and can easily become an 'atrocity'.

[yendu bwam]

Let's go back, Tpaine. I began on this thread by decrying things like the sexual abuse of teenage boys in the Catholic Church and fatherless families. You responded with a post on fundamentalism. I asked if believing in right and wrong makes you a fundamentalist. You said yes, but that you yourself were not (even though you have a notion of right and wrong). You said force had to be involved. I never mentioned forcing anyone to do anything. So what is the point of your fundamentalist post?

[tpaine]

I believe my point was made, in that, - hopefully, the post made you think about your fundamentalism, and the role force has historically played in the fundamentalist philosophy.

-- Thanks.

[yendu bwam]

I believe my point was made, in that, - hopefully, the post made you think about your fundamentalism, and the role force has historically played in the fundamentalist philosophy.

I'm not a fundamentalist - even by your own definition. I haven't tried to force anything on you at all.

[skeeter]

The clash between the multiculturalists and the defenders of Western civilization and the American Creed is, in James Kurth's phrase, "the real clash" within the American segment of Western civilization.

If only there were a "clash" I'd be there with bells on. As far as I can see, its been one long retreat.

Take a principled stand at your own peril. As Pat Buchanan found out in '92, the protruding nail gets pounded down.

[Black Agnes]

Good read ping!

[Noumenon]

Take a principled stand at your own peril.

Yep - it's cost me jobs and 'friends' that I'm better off without. But you know what - I can look myself in the mirror at the end of each day and not have to avert my eyes.

[Noumenon]

Martin van Creveld bump.

[Joe Brower]