[Salman]

Old fashioned socialism's gripe against capitalism was the private control of the means of production. They claimed that a centrally controlled economy would serve human needs better than capitalism.

In essence they were aiming at the same thing as capitalism, except their way didn't work.

Greenie-ism's gripe against capitalism is that the means of production exist at all. They like a centrally controlled economy, but human needs aren't on the agenda even as a rhetorical flourish.

You can't claim their way doesn't work. For what they want to accomplish it does work.

As an aside, the Euro way is somewhere in between. They claim to serve human needs and while socialism doesn't work, semi-socialism semi-works. Good enough for them.

[nicollo]

Good point re. the end game of socialism. Back in the Big Business age of Standard Oil and U.S. Steel, the progressives demanded regulation of business, as they felt that conglomerates were an inevitble result of economics. The socialists applauded the size of business. They said the problem wasn't size but ownership. Thankfully, the notion of competition, urged by conservatives, won out.

We'd do well to let the left keep the word "capitalism." We need to preach liberty and the sanctity of private property. There's no good word for it I can find, except "U.S. Constitution."

[Free Vulcan]

Dude, don't you understand that the Dark Ages were the high point of civilization? The serfs had it all man! Why wouldn't you want to go back to those days? Everyone should want to live like a Bhuddist monk and be the first to reach Mount Sanctimony!