[mewzilla]

But no-one has answered my question: how and/or why does a woman golfing as a member and not a guest ruin a guy's enjoyment of his game?

[Oldeconomybuyer]

But no-one has answered my question: how and/or why does a woman golfing as a member and not a guest ruin a guy's enjoyment of his game?

You question is moot unless you are a member of Augusta National.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

Women who act like you are on this thread is probably the best answer to your question as to "why does a woman golfing as a member and not a guest ruin a guy's enjoyment of his game".

[Rebel-without-a-pause]

I'll take a stab at this. I have no horse in this race, I don't play golf and don't particularly like the game, so there....I don't think having a woman as a member screws up a man's enjoyment of the game. It has to do with the right of free association. He can belong to a club that has the right to choose it's membership. As I understand it, men play at the same time as women in the club, but the women can't become members. Women have to be envited to play. Does that sound about right?

[3k9pm]

The club is not limited to golf, also women play golf there.

The point is a group of persons joined together and formed a PRIVATE club to cater to their wants. They decide the membership rules and social activities they wish to participate in.
If another person wants to become a part of the society of the club, their application is taken and judged against the social norms of the members of the club. If the applicant is acceptable to the members of the club, the application is accepted. If not, it is rejected. This social club takes no federal monies and is not regulated in membership requirements by the gov. The failed applicant is welcome to start his own club or possibly reapply.

[Long Cut]

Let me try to answer your question. We all know that men and women are different...mentally as well as physically. We react differently to the same things, on very deep, hardwired levels.

Notice, men have never (beyond sarcastically or pruriently) expressed much desire to join women-only groups or clubs. We figure, for the most part, that women want their privacy and some "company of their own kind", from time to time, and it's okay with us. We're really not interested in what's discussed at such things, anyway, just as women are not generally interested in the things men talk about or do amongst each other.

However, women DO seem to evince a desire (through people like Miss Burk) to join male-only clubs and organizations. It almost seems at times to be an extension of childhood, when the girls couldn't wait to be allowed into the boy's clubhouse or tree fort. Perhaps women are just more interested in what we do amongst ourselves than we are in what they do. The drive does, you'll admit, seem to be one-sided.

What I'm really getting to, I suppose, is whether or not men have the same right to gather and do "guy stuff" without the usual strictures imposed upon gentlemen by the presence the opposite sex as the ladies do.

Bottom line: we don't try to join YOUR clubs/organizations/whatever, can't you extend us the same courtesy?

[Frohickey]

But no-one has answered my question: how and/or why does a woman golfing as a member and not a guest ruin a guy's enjoyment of his game?

It doesn't. But when an outsider tells you what you should do, you resent it. Only members of the club can tell what the club should and should not do. If you are not a member, you do not have a say or stake in any matter involving it. Unless you are a potential member that is willing to say, drop a billion dollars.

[PMCarey]

But no-one has answered my question: how and/or why does a woman golfing as a member and not a guest ruin a guy's enjoyment of his game?

Because members have some influence over policies set by the group and guests don't. I'm a member of a Catholic Homeschooling group. To be a member you have to be Catholic, but we welcome non-Catholics to join our activities. The only restriction is that they have "guest" status and not member status. Only members can vote on policy and hold office. This is important because it ensures that our group will always retain its Catholic identity.

Not being a member of Augusta (darn!) I don't know how they see their group and its identity. It's already been posted that membership is by invitation only and it can also be revoked at any moment. Consider it a free association of the members. It's possible that at some point the members will see a woman whom they think will be a valuable addition to Augusta, but it doesn't seem that they're interested in any token members.

Beyond all that, face it, men and women are different. My wife has a "girls group" that she spends time with every month. I never thought of this as anything unnatural. In fact it seems the most natural thing in the world.

[Wolfstar]

Because not everyone who joins a golf club actually golfs. I have no doubt there are members-only activities and, in all likelihood, members-only areas of the club. But I don't want to speak for Augusta National. It may or may not be logical for them to bar women members and yet allow women to golf on their grounds. But it is a PRIVATE CLUB and they have every right to make their own rules, even if those rules don't make sense to some people. Once again, it is about liberty. We are "...endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights...among them the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." If it makes a bunch of guys happy to keep their club male only while allowing women to use club grounds for golf games, why should anyone interfere with their liberty to do so? What the heck difference does it make in the grand scheme of things, anyway?

[headsonpikes]

I note with delight that your queries have been more than adequately answered.

I can only assume you are happy now. ;^)

[San Jacinto]

Men's clubs were founded to be a refuge, a place where men could go and smoke cigars, talk bidness, tell dirty jokes, sit around in big leather chairs and read the financial pages, drink some bourbon and branch water, get a massage, play gin rummy, and stuff like that. When this got started 70 to 100 years ago, there were such differences between the sexes in terms of social behavior that it made perfect sense to be "men only". In fact, it was an essential element of the purpose and mission of the club.

Men were expected to behave in a different fashion in the presence of ladies due to the sensibilities of the fairer sex. Even today, the once men's only clubs which now permit women have sections reserved for men only-- men's grill, card room, or such.

The people at Augusta National obviously have chosen to keep in place the long standing traditions from the days of the founding of the club. People like you or MS. Burke may point out times have changed and perceive these traditions as arbitrary or unfair. But some people revere tradition more than others. Some peoples' opinions may differ from yours and MS. Burke's as to whether distinctions in society in the roles of the sexes is a good or bad thing.

Some people simply respect the freedom of a private organization to make its on rules rather than be dictated to by some rather despicable fringe dwellers who can't stand to see such freedom exist.

If Augusta National wants to stay the way it is for no reason other than they like it better that way, then that should be good enough.

The more pertinent question is why do MS. Burke or you care if women join Augusta National? Why would you possibly care?