The Iraq Connection - Was Saddam involved in OK City and the 1st WTC bombing? ~ Micah Morrison

The Wall Street Journal. editorial page ^ | September 5, 2002 | Micah Morrison, WSJ. Senior Editorial Page Writer

[TigersEye]

TIME disses the WSJ!? Hooooooooo wee! It's nice to find a good chuckle on this kind of thread. Seems to me that the STAR and the GLOBE have more journalistic credibility than TIME.

NEWSWEEK's not fit to line bird cages either.

[The Person]

Actually, the lawyers for McVeigh and Nichols thought there might be a connection with Iraq. McVeigh and Nichols didn't want to be traitors--just "patriotic" mass murders!!!???

So why, as Paul Wolfowitz revealed last year, did McVeigh have Iraqi phone numbers on his person when arrested? How many American lowlifes with no relatives in the Middle East call Iraq?

[The Person]

The other explanation is that one of the John Does was an FBI agent, who had infiltrated the bombing group and was supposed to stop the bombing but failed. This explains why some officials told others that they were not supposed to go to the federal building that day because of something going down. It also explains why one of the John Does was identified by another FBI agent from the artist's sketch, but was quickly told be another FBI agent to shut up.

[KC_Conspirator]

Some of the calls were billed to a prepaid phone card to which McVeigh also had access.

In order for me to entertain this idea that the OKC bombing had a mideast connection, one has to establish a connection between Nichols/McVeigh and mideast terrorists. The phone card by itself is not evidence, but if McVeigh had used it to call the Phillipines, that would be a red flag.

Your point about Nichols not having anything to lose is a good one. At this juncture, he could benefit from giving up information at this time, yet I am not aware he is at all.

These points are all circumstantial and pretty thin. The strongest may tie these two to Cebu, which is close, but not nrealy enough to convince me.

[KC_Conspirator]

The next day, the federal government issued arrest warrants and sketches of two men seen together, John Doe No. 1 and No. 2. John Doe 1 turned out to be McVeigh, who was quickly picked up on an unrelated charge. Following the arrest of McVeigh and Nichols, the Justice Department changed course, saying the witnesses were confused and there was no John Doe 2 with McVeigh.

Did the Justice Department actually say they were mistaken about John Doe #2 originally? Because in the trial they claimed that they got the description of John Doe #2 from the security tape from the truck rental place in Kansas.

[The Person]

This from an earlier thread in December 2001:

Timothy McVeigh's chief defense counsel for the murder trial, Stephen Jones, on behalf of McVeigh, filed an extra-ordinary petition in the next higher court, just prior to the murder trial. To no avail, Jones tried to force Denver U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch to compel the American CIA to disgorge records held by them showing prior U.S. knowledge of the bombing, as confirmed by other known records, some of them also in secret court records. We have a copy of the 185 page U.S. Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, petition filed by Jones and almost uniformly ignored by the American monopoly press. The petition raises the Iraqi connection.]"

[LS]

I think your post may have been meant for someone else, but let me re-state: I'm OPEN to such a possibility, but skeptical, given that essentially (in one form or another) FOUR juries have looked at evidence and never rendered a verdict consistent with anyone but McVeigh and Nichols being the culprits.

[aristeides]

I thought the indictments in those trials were framed in such a way that there might have been unnamed other people involved. What about the prosecutions depended on there not being such other people?

[KC_Conspirator]

I think I meant to post to you and concur with your assessment that this is not compelling evidence.

[justa-hairyape]

In order for me to entertain this idea that the OKC bombing had a mideast connection, one has to establish a connection between Nichols/McVeigh and mideast terrorists.

Actually, in a basic sense there has already been a connection between the middle east and the OKC bombing. McViegh himself stated that his motivation for his anti-US government stance was partially based on his experience fighting within the Middle East. Specifically within Kuwait and Iraq. McViegh is the connection between the OKC bombing and the middle east. Now we need to determine if the additional 'John Does' just consisted of other 'home grown' terrorist with similar views or was he assisted by other terrorist with direct connections to the middle east. IE - non-homegrown terrorists.

[KC_Conspirator]

A "basic sense" connection to Middle East is not proof at all. So he was Gulf War vet? That establishes nothing. What I am looking for is solid evidence tying McVeigh to the mideast terrorists, just like any good investigator. As I said, if McVeigh had used the calling card to contact someone in the Phillipines when Nichols was not there, that would scream out that he was trying to contact someone.

All of this is very interesting, but I want some harder evidence.

[KC_Conspirator]

Hey, I totall agree with the John Doe #2 statement. But there has been some confusion (or lies) by the prosecution. I remember that the drawings came out that night, but later the prosecution claimed they got it from the Uhaul rental place, not from eye witness accounts. People want to make the public believe that John Doe#2 was Terry Nichols when in fact he is not.

[glorygirl]

There's a lot the WSJ left out. From Kenneth Timmerman:

" Nichols' father-in-law, a Filipino policeman named Torres, told Philippine-government investigators that he had found bomb-making manuals in Nichols' luggage in late 1994 when Nichols stayed at the family's home in Cebu City, at precisely the same time Angeles placed Nichols in meetings there with Youssef. The FBI claims Torres retracted these statements, but Jones says he reaffirmed them in subsequent depositions with Philippine authorities. "To me, that increased his credibility," Jones tells INSIGHT.

Re: the "shadowy figure" Edwin Angeles, in the Phillippines, from the Manila Times.

"Angeles made these revelations in the newsroom of ABS CBN, the country's largest TV network, but top officials, instead of giving him protection, decided to send him to the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) for a witness protection programme."

"This paved the way for the authorities to arrest him and send him to Basilan, southern Philippines, where he was charged with 54 counts of kidnapping. He was acquitted because he presented orders from his supervisors on the cases filed against him."

Also again from Timmerman.

"The video interrogation linking Nichols to Yousef, bin Laden and Iraq initially was obtained by Stephen Jones, the defense attorney who represented convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. But at the insistence of federal prosecutors, trial judge Richard P. Matsch refused to admit it into evidence."

and, from the same article

"Johnston informed Jones last week he would be serving him with a desk subpoena to obtain this and other materials that were either sealed by the court or not admitted as evidence in the McVeigh trial. Shortly after Johnston got off the phone with him, Jones received threatening calls from federal prosecutors in Denver and Oklahoma City, warning him not to release the materials, Insight is told by a close associate of the lawyer. Jones did not return several calls by press time.

Please consider all the implications.

[KC_Conspirator]

Interesting. If true, I would say that is a direct link from OKC to arab terrorists. Now where is this taped evidence. Has any media outlets aired it?

[GOP_1900AD]

Given recent revelations and renewed scrutiny regarding Nichols.... Simply keeping this bumped up and pingin' a few a y'all while I'm at it....

[ApesForEvolution]

Of course he was involved...the biggest cover-up of modern time.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!