[thucydides]

Good post. In my opinion, the Vietnam situation was as follows: In war, you either go all out to win as fast as possible, or you stand down. It is reasonable to ask people in the military to risk their lives in the former case. In the usual democrat fashion, LBJ tried to play all sides of the issue. Welfare and pork at home, a partial effort in Vietnam, and an ongoing quagmire (which we nearly won anyway). This policy allowed the "anti-war" (actually anti-American) left to gain traction, and to plant a host of false "lessons" in the minds of the young. It was also deeply and profoundly immoral.

[colorado tanker]

My understanding is that McNamara devised the "hold until November" strategy, which was to give aid to the South Viets but not to commit combat troops, hoping they could stave off a commie victory until after the election, when McNamara would ask for and get authorization to send troops. That way Johnson could run in effect as a peace candidate and tar Goldwater as a warmonger.

The Joint Chiefs original estimates, before massaging by McNamara and Taylor, were pretty accurate, that 600,000 plus would be needed to win a ground victory, but the American people weren't told and it appears McNamara never even forwarded them to Johnson.

The 1964 campaign was a lie based on "hold until November" which meant Johnson was elected without any mandate to send combat troops. Johnson probably could have won anyway had he leveled with the American people about Vietnam, but his not doing so was a recipe for trouble, which he got.

[maica]

Much can be ascribed to the political cowardice of President Richard Nixon, who briefly set out to fight in Southeast Asia as we later would fight in Kuwait, but bowed down to pressure from student hoodlums and left-wing storm troopers. Had he proceeded militarily as planned, carpet-bombing Haiphong and closing its harbor, he would have cut off most of the North's war supplies.

When I asked many years ago why our forces did not close Haiphong Harbor, I was told that British ships used that port on a regular basis. Does any freeper know more about this? If it is true, then we have a perfect example of the hazards of deferring to 'allies.'

Could our 'allies' have been providing war materiel to the VC?

[Grut]

Pointing the finger of blame over the American defeat in Vietnam once was a cottage industry for politicians, the media and the military.

Actually, no. After Vietnam there was, for the most part, a Great Silence. To this day, Congress has never held hearings to determine what happened there, which might be a useful thing to know considering that a keystone of our foreign policy is "No more Vietnams."

[11th Earl of Mar]

Very interesting read.

Also, a bump to Pekin, Illinois, my original hometown.

Senate Republican leader Everett McKinley Dirksen of Illinois with a few favors for which the mellifluous "Duke of Pekin"

[Polybius]

The Johnson White House Tapes, 1963-1964

What I would give to have them discover The Clinton White House Tapes, 1993-2001...............

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bump

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Go to WIN!!

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[aristeides]

It'll be interesting to see what use Robert Caro makes of the LBJ tapes, when he gets to Vietnam and the LBJ presidency.

[waterstraat]

I have read both books, on the transcripts of Johnson. There is no better proof that it was the vietnam war protestors who were right all along, than Johnsons very own words.

[BRO68]

This is old news. The author is simply regurgitating what Halberstam wrote in "The Best and the Brightest" - what - twenty five years ago or so. That book remains the definitive analysis of LBJ's mismanagement of the war.

And by the way, Nixon began the U.S. pull back almost immediately after taking office in January 1969.

[DoctorMichael]

There is another subtext to this subject that seems to be hiding in plain view.................................

Nixon is always portrayed as a paranoid bastard by those in the media (Oliver Stone, Woodward and Bernstein, etc., etc.) because he employed a taping mechanism in the Oval Office.

Now what we find out out is that Johnson did the same thing.

On top of that C-SPAN and other media sources that have aired this material over the last year or so have continually billed the taped conversations as "contributing to our understanding of history" and "providing an insight into the important personalities and topics of those times", blah, blah, blah.

!!!!!!!!!BULLSHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Sorry, I just had to get that pet peeve/observation of dounble standardism, hypocrisy and media santimoniousness out)

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Has anyone ever put it better than Gen. Douglas MacArthur when he said: "There is no substitute for victory"?

Amen!!