Girl Murdered By Father For Having Sex Was Still A Virgin

The Sydney Morning Herald ^ | September 8, 2002 | staff writer "The Herald-Sun"

[oprahstheantichrist]

"I think these stories would all make great movies on the "Lifetime" channel for women."

Never happen. Don't want to get the soccermoms all incensed against Islam, you know. Nor do we want to risk them thinking that there are some in the world more brutal, dangerous, and intolorant than religious, conservative Christians.

[RonF]

"The Historical Jesus, The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant", by John Dominic Crossan, published by HarperSanFrancisco (a division of HarperCollins), copyright 1991. The book's premise is that some of the things in the Bible are things that Jesus actually said and did, while other things in the Bible are things that were added later to explain or enhance what Jesus actually said and did, as those who followed him as the first Christians tried to communicate to others what Jesus was all about.

So this is not a guy who's into Biblical literalness. But to try to explain his thesis, it's important to understand the context of the society that Jesus and his followers lived in. The first few chapters cover Mediterranean societies, their mores, etc. I certainly haven't examined his sources to see if I agree with them or his interpretations of them, but it tends to be in accordance with what I've heard otherwise.

I also hvae no idea if I agree with his central premise. He spends a lot of time on comparing the various parts of the New Testament. He seems to think that sayings and actions of Jesus that appear multiple times in the Bible are generally historical, whereas other things that only appear once were likely added later to help explain and build Jesus's teachings. Now, I don't necessarily go along with any of this, but it's interesting reading.

[smoking camels]

Did you miss the part where it said this was a conservative forum? FOR conservatives. You are not one. Even you admit that.

[apochromat]

It's all about sects.

[TheWriterInTexas]

Nope, just trying to set the record straight. If RonF hadn't done it, I would have.

As much as I despise the gasbags at NOW, they have been trying to make people aware of the abuses towards women in many areas of the world. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[john in missouri]

Something was gnawing at me from crazykatz's post. It took me a moment to realize what it was:

Under an Albanian traditional law dating from the 15th century, laid out in a massive tome known as the Kanun of Leke Dukagjini, a husband may return his bride to her family if he should discover that "she is not as she should be" on her wedding night.

Alternatively, he may kill her himself, sometimes with a bullet traditionally given to him at the wedding by the bride's father, just in case.

So I did just a bit of research, and guess what I promptly found?

"By the mid-14th century, Byzantine [that is, the latter Roman Empire] rule had come to an end in Albania, after nearly 1,000 years. A few decades later the country was confronted with a new threat, that of the Turks [Muslims], who at this juncture were expanding their power in the Balkans. The Ottoman Turks invaded Albania in 1388 and completed the occupation of the country about four decades later (1430)."

[john in missouri]

Alternatively, he may kill her himself, sometimes with a bullet traditionally given to him at the wedding by the bride's father, just in case.

How sick is that?

[Bella_Bru]

All RonF did was refute the claim that NOW was staying silent on the matter. Would it have been more conservative o nod his head like a trained dog and keep saying, "Yup, NOW has said nothing" when that is not true? Just because one presents a fact does mean one is a supporter of NOW.

[missycocopuffs]

"What happened was meant to be, it was ordained," says Haxjere's other brother, Ahmet, 20, sitting next to his mother on the grass. He says the family feels that their honour in the village has been redeemed.

"I can look the village in the eye," says his mother "and I'm more worried about my son than my daughter

How truly pathetic. I thank God every day that I was born of a time and place that doesn't tolerate such barbarity. I wish NOW would put its energies into righting these wrongs instead of worrying whether a few privileged women should become members of an exclusive club for rich, old men.

[smoking camels]

It is one thing to set the record straight. It is another to be constantly in defense of liberals as this man is. Research his records and see for yourself.

[smoking camels]

It is one thing to set the record straight. It is another to be constantly in defense of liberals as this man is. Research his records and see for yourself.

[copycat]

There are parts of...America...that behave similarly.

Name it.

[another cricket]

Well if this is what he is saying "including a woman's "honor" as being property of and the measure of a man is widespread thoughout those areas bordering the Mediterranean Sea and the Middle East, and predated Jesus's time, never mind Mohammed's."

Then the book is poorly researched to say the least. There was a concept of family honor but it was quite different then you represent his point of view to be and the Mediterranean area was quite different in its regard of women then the Persian. Women of Egypt, Asia Minor, Israel and Rome had a number of legal freedoms and reconditions that are not present in Islam. The right to own property, the right to bring suit for redress of grievance, the right to be educated, the right to own and run a business, the right to inherent in their own right, the right to petition for divorce, the right to set up and maintain their own household.

Don’t mis-understand! It was not equal rights, as we understand it. There was nothing that said that a woman would have these things but there was no law against her doing or having them. And that was far to be preferred over what Islam later imposed and still practices today.

a.cricket

[RonF]

I make no representations as to how well the author did his research, nor do I intend to defend his thesis. What I do question is that there seems to be many people who are of the opinion that the role/status of women in what are currently Islamic countries is similar to what they were before Islam came to them, and the words of the Qu'ran have simply been creatively interpreted (much as the words of the Bible often are) to match up or even intensify the previous customs. How true that opinion is I cannot say personally.

[RonF]

My thanks, Bella_Bru. Some people on FR (and many other political boards) have a fairly binary viewpoint on such matters; there's their viewpoint, and then there's the Devil Incarnate's. Say anything that doesn't conform to a heavily conservative viewpoint, or try to bear witness that someone has said or done something that doesn't fit the general pre-conceived notions, and one is a "liberal". Or, the Devil Incarnate, which is apparently the same thing.

[RonF]

I wish NOW would put its energies into righting these wrongs instead of worrying whether a few privileged women should become members of an exclusive club for rich, old men.

I'm not sure that NOW is involved in that particular issue (a search reveals only one news story on the issue, and no call for action), but whoever is is wasting their time when they could be putting their energies into something useful, such as aiding the women in Afghanistan. Go Hootie!

[RonF]

I'm not a conservative, but I find myself in agreement with many things said here. I also find myself in disagreement with many things said here. In any case, I've learned a few things here. So far, I haven't heard complaints that I'm particularly disruptive.

[missycocopuffs]

I'm not sure that NOW is involved in that particular issue (a search reveals only one news story on the issue, and no call for action)...

From what I understand Martha Burke, who is leading the charge against Augusta, works on behalf of the National Council of Women's Organizations, which is an umbrella group for many women's organizations. NOW is a member of NCWO so, indirectly at least, they are worrying about it :) But, I get your drift and I should have been more clear.

...but whoever is is wasting their time when they could be putting their energies into something useful, such as aiding the women in Afghanistan. Go Hootie!

Amen, brother :)

[another cricket]

What I do question is that there seems to be many people who are of the opinion that the role/status of women in what are currently Islamic countries is similar to what they were before Islam came to them, and the words of the Qu'ran have simply been creatively interpreted (much as the words of the Bible often are) to match up or even intensify the previous customs. How true that opinion is I cannot say personally.

You are right to question it. The area that is now called Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia was never particularly enlighten in it's treatment of women but after the arrival of Islam things went from bad to worse. Around the Mediterranean Basin it went from not that bad to awful.

The history of Egypt is one of the clearest and best documented examples of that if you are interested.

I will have to get a copy of that book and read it. It sounds like it will get my blood moving at any rate.

a.cricket

[GirlShortstop]

Fine job by John in the Show Me State
Freegards.