Posted on 09/10/2002 3:41:31 PM PDT by zapiks44
I thought to myself, what's wrong with these people? Isn't Israel our ally in the Middle East? Isn't Israel the only democratically representative government in the Middle East? Only one of the negative replies that contained any kind of reasoning was on from a client who appeared to suffer from a liberal PC education. In her statement she spoke about how she thought it was innapropriate for me to have used my access to my clients to promote a Pro-Israeli message.
To make the story short, I came to realize that these people are cowards and don't want to take a stand for what deep down we know is the right cause. There are absolutes, there is right and wrong. What America stands for is worth defending and fighting for, and no, we can't all just get along. (Sorry Rodney).
So the argument is bogus, and you admit it's bogus. Yet you still lean on it.
Race is either made up or genetic. I showed evidence that Jews as a race works under both definitions.
"2. Jews from all over the world really do share a lot more genetic code than most think."
So many Jews share some genetic code. And that has what to do with race? Genetic code will tell you a few things about bloodlines - family type of stuff. A genetic marker doesn't necessarily signify a racial characteristic. Another bogus argument.
If consistancy of genetic markers across many subgroups of people who claim to belong to one race doesn't make them a race, what would?
Now consider this: if I were to convert to Judaism, I would be a Jew. That single fact alone renders your whole "racial platform" null and void. There are things that are sort of special about the Jews as a people, but race doesn't enter into it.
And once you or your children start married "real" Jews, they your grand children would be blood members of the race.
If 100% purity is your standar, no race exists.
A piece of advice for you: if you absolutely must debate racial questions, it behooves you to get a grip on what race is.
What then is race?
"American Indians are anything but the ethnic core. This was not thier country. They were subjects of the various Indian Nations. They were not citizens. We took their land."
This is senseless and ridiculous.
It is fact.
1. Indians were not citizens at our founding. The were seperate nations. Read the Constituion.
2. The Indians did not invite us. WE invaded their land, constituted a new nation, and took over. This is nothing new in human history.
" The central core is the white, mostly British, populace at the founding, who make up 1/3 of Americans. They set up the polity and are what everyone else is supposed to assimilate to."
And so is this.
I see SO MANY BLakcs, Russians, Italians, Chinese, and Indians when reading a list of founders of this country or looking at early voting rolls.
"If you think Israel doesn't have a racial core, let in 3 million Arabs (who you think Sephardim and Mizrahim resemble)"
Where, exactly, did I mention Sephardim and Mizrahim? Seems you are running a parallel argument somewhere else, with someone else. Are you? And what exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? There are Arabs in Israel. Not to mention Black Jews and Asian Jews ;).
1. If Jews are not a seperate race, tehn they belong to the race of people where they are from. Ashkenzim are White, Sephardim and Misrahim are Arabs. I'm pointing out a flaw.
2. Aren't Jews from Arabia and Persia "Asian"?
3. The Falashas are your best case. I would note that they do not look like Ethiopians. They have many Semetic and European characteristics. Facial structure is different, hair color is more diverse...
Ummmm, Sarah, stop whining, realize who your real friends are and become a Republican.
Pass that advice on to your other Liberal Jewish friends.
So what you're saying is that if someone had a devout reason, they could support the holocoust and still not be antisemitic. That is the bottom line of your POV, you know.
And once you or your children start married "real" Jews, they your grand children would be blood members of the race.
Sorry, your argument falls flat again. Now, I'm male, so my children would be Jewish if I married a Jewish woman. But if I'd been a woman, and converted, my children would be just as Jewish if I didn't. At least I think that's the case, but since I'm not completely sure of "procedure" here I'm pinging some who probably know.
If 100% purity is your standard, no race exists.
Actually, that is very much closer to the truth than you probably think. And even if you look at "pure" examples, the genetic differences that make up "race" are very, very small and very insignificant. Making them an issue in politics is exceedingly stupid.
The Arab League makes use of a cognitive technique of propaganda called "turnspeak", where you attack someone and then turn it around 180 degrees and claim they attacked you. Because the truth is the exact opposite of the information being disseminated it is psychologically difficult to counter and leads to confusion.
Turnspeak leads to psychological confusion and a feeling of being "burned-out" or "overwhelmed" with too much information, effectively creating a blanket of "white noise" which makes clarity difficult to achieve.
Joan Peters, former White House consultant on the Middle East writes:
The term was first used by journalists to describe German propaganda after it invaded Czechoslovakia in March of 1939. To win sympathy for their invasion, the Germans practiced what has become known as "turnspeak". They turned the blame back on the Czechs for trying to precipitate an all-out war in the region. In other words, the Czechs in their attempt to hang onto their land were ready to plunge all of Europe into war.The Arab claim that Jews are "Nazis" is not without motive. They are trying to obscure their own close connection with the Nazis. During World War II leading Muslims including Haj Amin al-Husseini worked for the Nazis in Germany and called for a intifada against Britain. Haji Amin al-Husseini was the grand mufti of Jerusalem, as well as Yasser Arafat's close relative and mentorHow did the rest of Europe respond to this lie? They believed it. World leaders decided that something had to be done to preserve peace at any cost.
Author William Shirer, who was a reporter in Europe at the time, distilled the truth simply when he wrote, "Thus the plight of the German minority in Czechoslovakia was merely a pretext...for cooking up a stew in a land he [Hitler] coveted, undermining it, confusing and misleading its friends and concealing his real purpose...to destroy the Czechoslovak state and grab its territories..."
The Arabs, especially Iraq, sided with Germany during W.W.II. In May 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini issued a fatwa - "summons to a holy war against Britain". The Mufti's widely heralded proclamation against Britain was declared in Iraq, and was instrumental in his 1941 pro-Nazi intifada in Iraqi. The Mufti also requested Arab-Americans not to support FDR.
Yasser Arafat's actual name is Abd al-Rahman abd al-Rauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. He shortened it to obscure his kinship with the notorious Nazi and Mufti of Jerusalem.
Saddam Hussein was raised in the house of his uncle Khayrallah Tulfah, who was a leader in the Mufti's pro-Nazi coup in Iraq in May 1941. Both Yasser Arafat and Saddam Hussein were greatly influenced by the Mufti during their time in Cairo during the 1950s.
See also History of Fedayeen, PLO, Fatah, PFLP, PFLP-GC, DFLP, etc Militant Palestinian Groups and Yasser Arafat worthy successor to Haj Muhammad Amin al Husseini
| What "turnspeak" says: (from Arab and Western media)
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Yet the counterpart is probably closer to the truth:
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1."From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters, 1984
2.The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini was later the notorious Nazi who mixed Nazi propaganda and Islam. He was wanted for war crimes in Bosnia by Yugoslavia. His mix of militant propagandizing Islam was an inspiration for both Yasser Arafat and Saddam Husein: He was also a close relative of Yasser Arafat and grandfather of the current Temple Mount Mufti. "Arafat's actual name was Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud al-Husseini. He shortened it to obscure his kinship with the notorious Nazi and ex-Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini." Howard M. Sachar, A HISTORY OF ISRAEL (New York: Knopf, 1976). The Bet Agron International Center in Jerusalem interviewed Arafat's brother and sister, who described the Mufti as a cousin (family member) with tremendous influence on young Yassir after the Mufti returned from Berlin to Cairo. Yasser Arafat himself keeps his exact lineage and birthplace secret. Saddam Hussein was raised in the house of his uncle Khayrallah Tulfah, who was a leader in the Mufti's pro-Nazi coup in Iraq in May 1941.
I especially like the easy side by side reference.
Who's Astonished Now????
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| Astonished | J Harris | Lematha | sawgrass |
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| Passin Pilgrim | LeeAnn6 | tynker | Kudzu Flat |
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| Samaritan | Patria One | beecharmer | Miss Pixie |
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| necho6 | glassheart3 | Friend_Or_Foe | Kirkland Junction |
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| nohorse | faintpraise | TBD | TBD |
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