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A Reasoned and Articulate View of Islam
Q-News ^ | Hamza Yusuf

Posted on 09/14/2002 8:50:07 AM PDT by meia

This article first appeared in Q-News, the Muslim magazine,
www.q-news.com.

On September 11th our lives changed forever. We witnessed an act of aggression that in many ways does not have a parallel in past or present times. There are several elements that make this act unique, from the use of civilian planes as weapons of mass destruction to the attack on the most widely recognised skyscrapers in the world. Nor have we ever witnessed the terrible indictment of Islam as having a part to play in such a heinous crime, writes Hamza Yusuf.

_______________________________

Muslims were seen rejoicing in some parts of the world in a display of what can only be called shamaatatul 'aadai', which is rejoicing at the calamities of ones’ enemies. This is something explicitly prohibited in Islam and was never practiced by the Prophet of Mercy, upon him be prayers and peace. We have seen images since of American flags burning to further arouse the wrath of a nation filled with grief, confusion and anger. Again, Islam prohibits the burning of flags according to the explicit verse, “Do not curse [the idols] of those who call on other than Allah, thus causing them to curse Allah out of animosity [toward you] and without knowledge.” This verse prohibits even the cursing of false gods because of the consequences.  We have also seen image after image of Muslims with beards and turbans, who by all outward means look religious and pious - but are they really?

Unfortunately, the West does not know what every Muslim scholar knows; that the worst enemies of Islam are from within. The worst of these are the khawaarij who delude others by the deeply dyed religious exterior that they project. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said about them, “When you see them pray you will consider your own prayers insignificant. They recite the Quran but it does not exceed the limits of their throat.”  In other words, they don’t understand the true meanings. The outward religious appearance and character of the khawaarij deluded thousands in the past, and continues to delude people today. The Muslims should be aware that despite the khawaarij adherence to certain aspects of Islam, they are extremists of the worst type. 

Our Prophet said, peace be upon him, “Beware of extremism in your religion.”  Islam is the middle way between excess and neglect. Zealots are a plague upon religion. These extremists come in two types. The first is a reactionary extremist who falls far right of a centre-point. Reactionary extremists do not want any pluralism; they view the world in melodramatic, black and white, good and evil terms. They are good and anyone who opposes them is evil. From among the Muslims these are people who ‘excommunicate’ any Muslim who fails to share their interpretations of the Quran. They use takfir and character assassination as a tool for marginalising any criticism directed at them. They are used often by the Western media in order to scare simple people and cause them to believe that Muslims are insane. Unfortunately, our communities provide them with much fuel to fire their incendiary flames. 

The second group are radical extremists, who while they are almost identical with the former group, differ in that they will use violence to further their cause. They are actually worse than the first. They believe like every nefarious secret society before them that ‘the end justifies the means.’ They see any act as acceptable if it will further their ‘cause.’ This is blatantly anti-Islamic for a number of reasons.

Firstly, Islam’s means must reflect its noble ends. Any means that does not embody the core truths and ethics of Islam is not from Islam and thus denounced as aberration. Secondly, Islam is not a secret society of conspirators who no one knows what they are planning. Islam declares openly its aims and objectives and these are recognised by good people everywhere as pure and congruent with their own wisdom and traditions. In the case of many of these extremists even the non-Muslims recognise that no religion of any weight could sanction the taking of innocent lives. The Quran says that the Torah and the Gospel have guidance and light and that the Quran came to fulfil these prior dispensations. Good Christians and Jews who believe in God and live ethically upright lives have no frame of reference for such acts, so how could these acts be from Islam, which confirms what has come before it? 

Thirdly, they are invariably people who have never taken a true spiritual path to God and nor have they studied the humanities. I can almost guarantee that you will not find a scholar of poetry among the whole vile lot of these people. They have no true knowledge of Arabian culture, which is centred in the idea of futuwwa; a word akin to the western word chivalry. The terrorists posing as journalists who killed Ahmad Shah Masuud were cowards of the worst type. Killing themselves was not bravery but stupidity, but killing one’s enemy in such a way is the worst form of treachery and the Arabs have many poems denouncing such type of people. 

Our real situation is this: we Muslims have lost theologically sound understanding of our teaching. Islam has been hijacked by a discourse of anger and the rhetoric of rage. We have allowed for too long our mimbars to become bully pulpits in which people with often recognisable psychopathology use anger - a very powerful emotion - to rile Muslims up, only to leave them feeling bitter and spiteful towards people who in the most part are completely unaware of the conditions in the Muslim world, or the oppressive assaults of some Western countries on Muslim peoples. We have lost our bearings because we have lost our theology. We have almost no theologians in the entire Muslim world. The study of kalaam, once the hallmark of our intellectual tradition, has been reduced to memorizing 144 lines of al-Jawhara and a good commentary to study it, at best.

The reality is we are an Umma that no longer realises that Allah is the power behind all power; that it is Allah who subjugates one people to another; that He gives dominion to whom He pleases and He takes it away from whom He pleases. Our understanding of tawhid has fallen into such disarray that we can no longer introspect when afflictions befall us and then wonder in amazement at why the Americans seem incapable of introspection. Indeed, I personally attended a memorial service in San Francisco with over 30,000 people and the Reverend Amos Brown said in no uncertain terms that America must ask herself what she has done either wittingly or unwittingly to incur the wrath and hate of people around the world. Muslims on the other hand, generally prefer to attack the West as the sole reason for their problems when the truth is we are bankrupt as a religious community and our spiritual bankruptcy has led to our inability to even deliver the message of Islam to Westerners in a time when they were giving us platforms to do so. 

It is ironic that the Western media while producing many vile programs on Islam has also produced and aired material of the highest quality with a high level of accuracy only to be vilified by Muslims because it was not good enough. Where is our media?  Where are our spokespeople?  Where are our scholars? Where are our literary figures?  The truth is we don’t have any - and so instead of looking inward and asking painful questions such as why we don’t have such things and such people, we take the simple way out by attacking people whom Allah tells us will do mean things, say bad things and plot against us. And always when we are warned we are told to be patient, to work for the good, to trust in Allah, to return to Allah, to implement our deen.

Conspiracy or not, we are to blame for the terrible backlash against Muslims. The simple reason is that when a crazy Christian does something terrible, everyone in the West knows it is the actions of a mad man because they have some knowledge of the core beliefs and ethics of Christianity. When a mad Muslim does something evil or foolish they assume it is from the religion of Islam, not because they hate us but because they have never been told by a Muslim what the teachings of Islam are all about.

_______________________________


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: christian; islam; muslim; religion
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: AzJP
"Al Capone embraced Catholicism, as he killed."
And was repudiated by the majority of those who call themselves Catholics

"Mr. Clinton embraced Christianity, as he lied to his wife."
And was condemmed by pastors and laymen in pulpits throughout the country.

Now please fill in the blank"

"Muslim fanatics hijacked American airliners and flew them into the WTC and Pentagon"

(fill in blank) ---------------------------

We're waiting . . .

101 posted on 09/14/2002 11:27:36 AM PDT by KeyBored
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To: inflorida
His argument has run dry and he's just making things up now... typical Muslim apologetics strategy.
PROPAGANDA LIES
102 posted on 09/14/2002 11:28:36 AM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: ValerieUSA
I am sorry to be slow to translate, and we are called to the dinner table. I'm amazed that you know that the NYC terrorists used the English phrase "Praise God". I would have ecpected "Inshallah" but if you know of the equivalency to those terrosts of God / Allah, thank you.

Best to you, Ryan

103 posted on 09/14/2002 11:31:47 AM PDT by AzJP
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To: justjlb
Taqqiah - decieving the infidels.

Anyway the jihadis were told to blend in and enjoy. They were going to paradise for their service to allah anyway.

What steams me is the argument is made that they weren't real muslims because they went to a strip joint, but not because they were coldblooded murdering scums who would've done us all a favor by dribbling down their mama's thighs instead.
104 posted on 09/14/2002 11:32:52 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: ValerieUSA

     (the old heathen says 'hey' ...)


105 posted on 09/14/2002 11:34:22 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: swarthyguy
precisely. They were REAL muslims all right.
And thanks for the word.
106 posted on 09/14/2002 11:35:35 AM PDT by justjlb
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To: AzJP
I'm amazed that you know that the NYC terrorists used the English phrase "Praise God".

Huh? They said "Allah Akbar"
You aren't even trying to make sense.

107 posted on 09/14/2002 11:36:33 AM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: tomkat
once again, perhaps i should clarify:

if you're sympathetic to the vermin that have attacked us, for whatever reason, you are my enemy.

if i should happen to be close enough to witness an attempted terrorist attack on my nation, i will do my best to eradicate the source of same, by whatever means come to hand.

now, that ought to be fairly clear, oughtn't it ?

Gee, sure sounds like a threat. Should I be scared?

108 posted on 09/14/2002 11:36:53 AM PDT by meia
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To: meia
It disturbs me greatly when I see "moderate" Muslims attempting to equate OBL with Christians like Falwell, Robertson, and Phelps. Needless to say, the analogy is inaccurate in every conceivable way.
109 posted on 09/14/2002 11:40:50 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: KeyBored
"Can't speak for anyone else, but I for one haven't accused you of fostering hatred or genocide. In fact in my first post to you I thanked you for posting this article"

Meia is having a problem with me. I warned her that her combative style was having the effect of making MORE people honestly want to wipe Islam off the face of the planet, not LESS.

In all my years, I've never seen purposely angering a group of people work as a tool to soften hearts. Additionally, Meia is unable to comprehend that most FReepers don't WANT to kill all Muslims, and we find her posts to be intellectually insulting.

As you can see from Meia's "I don't understand what you mean by that" posts, Meia is either being deliberately and stubbornly obtuse about the damage she's causing, or is just naturally dense.

110 posted on 09/14/2002 11:41:07 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: meia
I think this [the governments of said countries NEED the radicals] is a key to understanding Islam and Muslims.

Yes, but governments don't arise in a vacuum. It is unfortunate but I expect it will take centuries before the culture mellows as it did in the West. In the meantime we will have to protect ourselves in a continuing war of civilization vs. barbarity.

111 posted on 09/14/2002 11:42:02 AM PDT by edsheppa
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To: meia; AzJP

This photograph was seized from Saudi Arabian fighters captured in Crni Vrh near Teslic, Bosnia. A Muslim solder displays the severed head of Blagoje Blagojevic, a Serb from the village of Jasenovo near Teslic. Friend of yours? A role model or mentor, maybe?


112 posted on 09/14/2002 11:43:11 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: swarthyguy
"Guess they don't understand the impressions they are creating - or they know perfectly well what they are doing."

Yep. A lot of the crap I've been hearing, which also happened to be the same thing, in concentrated form, coming from the family and "friends" of the The Jokers' yesterday, STINKS of a reverse psy-ops project.

The bulk of them, IMO, are ignorant of the impressions they're creating...it's committing suicide, without the addded bonus of taking innocent kafir with you can bagging 72 bags of pig...err...virgins.

On the other hand, if they want an excuse for starting an intifada in this country - AND THEY DO WANT INTIFADA HERE - then they're succeeding....until we kill them all.

113 posted on 09/14/2002 11:50:10 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: meia
No, it does not mean that all whites are suspected of being serial killers, but it does mean that if you are looking for a serial killer and you detain 80 year old oriental ladies while ignoring all the white males between 20 and 50 you are a fool. If you are looking for a serial killer in this country you look first at young adult white males and when you are looking for a terrorist you look first at young adult middle eastern males.
114 posted on 09/14/2002 11:51:25 AM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: meia
Gee, sure sounds like a threat. Should I be scared?

A trifle paranoid, are you? All Tomkat said was that he'd do his best to eradicate the source of a terrorist attack on The United States (should he happen to witness an attempt). How is that a threat to you unless you plan on participating in such a terrorist attack?

Expect a knock on your door soon.

115 posted on 09/14/2002 11:51:50 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: cake_crumb
Additionally, Meia is unable to comprehend that most FReepers don't WANT to kill all Muslims, and we find her posts to be intellectually insulting.

Can you point out where I have said that Freepers want to kill all muslims?

116 posted on 09/14/2002 11:52:43 AM PDT by meia
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To: AzJP
"I'm amazed that you know that the NYC terrorists used the English phrase "Praise God". I would have ecpected "Inshallah" but if you know of the equivalency to those terrosts of God / Allah, thank you. "

IIRC, the phrase used by the hijackers was "Allah Akbar"

Why?

Are you a linguist?

117 posted on 09/14/2002 11:56:02 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: meia
only if you side with the terrs, sweetpea ...   

btw, bottom of the sixth, 2 out, nobody on ...

   1

   0

just know you're curious

118 posted on 09/14/2002 11:56:19 AM PDT by tomkat
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Comment #119 Removed by Moderator

Comment #120 Removed by Moderator

To: swarthyguy
"What steams me is the argument is made that they weren't real muslims because they went to a strip joint, but not because they were coldblooded murdering scums who would've done us all a favor by dribbling down their mama's thighs instead."

Quote of the day BUMP!

121 posted on 09/14/2002 12:05:40 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: AzJP
Any of your guests from malaysia? They should find this interesting:

Still no trace of tons of ammonium nitrate

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/world/1574634
122 posted on 09/14/2002 12:11:26 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: meia
This all reminds me of all the Leftists during the cold war who would renounce the Soviet Union or China or North Korea of not practicing "Real Communism".

If ever this mythic "Real Communism" were practised all the horrible disasters associated with that failed philosophy would disappear.

Well, what we see around us is Islam, AS IT IS PRACTISED. Not some mythic never never land of perfection.
And where ever it is a majority religion it fosters poverty, despotism and strife. Where in the minority it just fosters the strife.
123 posted on 09/14/2002 12:12:11 PM PDT by Kozak
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To: ChadGore
good list ... if you had added each and every one of the terror attacks in Israel (and you should) that list would be thirty - fifty times longer ...
124 posted on 09/14/2002 12:15:23 PM PDT by Bobby777
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Comment #125 Removed by Moderator

To: meia
HOW OLD ARE YOU?
126 posted on 09/14/2002 12:18:38 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: meia
"Our Prophet said, peace be upon him, “Beware of extremism in your religion.” Islam is the middle way between excess and neglect. Zealots are a plague upon religion. These extremists come in two types. The first is a reactionary extremist who falls far right of a centre-point. Reactionary extremists do not want any pluralism; they view the world in melodramatic, black and white, good and evil terms. They are good and anyone who opposes them is evil..."

Hmmmmm....sounds somehow familier, in certain religeous sects here in the US.

Interesting.

127 posted on 09/14/2002 12:21:54 PM PDT by MonroeDNA
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To: AzJP
This isn't about children's soccer games and ecumenical Christian car washes. Quit joking around.
128 posted on 09/14/2002 12:24:26 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: meia
Try basing all of Christianity on Leviticus.

Get a clue.

If you wish to take the position of an apologist for Islamic fanatics or the religion of Islam itself that is your perogative but don't attempt to equate the Bible and the Qu'ran. Christianity is based on the person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. He fulfilled the Old Testament Mosaic Law which was only a forerunner of His coming.

Jesus Christ preached peace; not anger, not war. Almost all of the original disciples died very unpleasant deaths for preaching Christ to a pagan world.

The Old Testament is violent but the violence is mostly of God's choosing. As God created man and supplies the very air, food and water we need to exist, He had the right to do as he pleases when his creation displeased Him - and He did, often using men of His choosing to kill other men who had displeased Him by rejecting God - or His laws. When Christ came the old laws passed away - although the Ten Commandments stand as a distillation of those laws.

Islam is a religion of violence and hatred for 'infidels'. That is an inescapable fact. Soothing essays that purport to explain to non-Muslims how wrong those crazy Islamic fanatics are fall flat when the example of the Muslim world is that of hatred and if not violence, cheering of violence when performed by others, all claiming to be doing the will of 'Allah'.

I don't buy it and I don't accept attempts to equate Christianity - a true religion of peace that so many have died for at the hands of those opposed to Christ - with Islam, a religion of hatred and anger, manifested in the fanatic sect of Wahhabi that schools young men in jihad and ends with hijacked airliners being crashed into tall buildings and 3,000 innocent people dead while apologists prattle on the internet about Islam being a 'religion of peace' and attempt absurd comparisons to the Old Testament Bible to equate Islamic religious violence and Christianity.

Christians don't base their religion on any man, they base it on Jesus Christ, Son of God, mankinds savior. Jesus was without sin and He is our guide, not the Old Testament, some backwoods preacher or TV faker waving a cross and a Bible.

For Muslims, Mohammad (and his Qu'ran) is their guide. He called for death to infidels (non-Muslims). That alone is enough of a difference between the two religions to make comparisons a waste of time. You are free to take the book of Leviticus as whatever you wish but Christ is the Christians guide, not Leviticus - or any mortal man.

129 posted on 09/14/2002 12:25:21 PM PDT by Jim Scott
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To: meia
"If you are white, does this mean we should suspect you of being a serial killer? "

Yes! If a serial killer is on the loose.

130 posted on 09/14/2002 12:26:07 PM PDT by MonroeDNA
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To: SrBahamonde
Is this your first post?

No.

131 posted on 09/14/2002 12:31:17 PM PDT by meia
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To: MonroeDNA
"Our Prophet said, peace be upon him, “Beware of extremism in your religion.”

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

"The Women" [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and
kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

[4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and
kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given.you a clear authority.

The Dinner Table - [5.51] O you who believe!
do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

The Cattle - [6.146] And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones: this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.

The Immunity - Denial of Deity of Christ and His Messiahship - [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! (MAY ALLAH DESTROY JEWS AND CHRISTIANS)

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away,
then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

The Congregation [62.6] Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful. (PLEASE COMMIT SUICIDE)

The Cow - [2.111] And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.

The Women - [4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one god; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector. (CLEARLY STATES THAT JESUS IS **NOT** THE SON OF GOD)

The Dinner Table - The Dinner Table [5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.

[5.72] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.

Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (Q. 2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q. 9:123), slay them (Q. 9: 5), fight with them, (Q. 8: 65 ) even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate them and impose on them a penalty tax (Q. 9: 29). Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tell clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q. 3: 85). It relegates those who disbelieve in Quran to hell (Q. 5: 11), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q. 9: 28). It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (Q. 2: 193).

"Fight those who do not profess the true faith [ISLAM], till they pay the jiziya with the hand of humility." - Koran 9: 29

"....
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks [CUT OFF THEIR HEADS], and smite all their finger tips of them [CUT OFF THEIR FINGERS]." - Koran 8: 12

"
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." - Koran 9: 73

"
When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads [CUT OFF THEIR HEADS] and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly." - Koran 47: 4

"The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom...." - Koran 5: 33-34

" Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jiziyah with willing submission. And feel themselves subdued." - Koran 9: 29

"....the Christians call 'Christ the Son Of God'. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but intimate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth." - Koran 9: 30

"....the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." - Koran 98: 1-8

"Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'" - Koran 22: 19-22, 23

"And burn ye him in the blazing fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits. This was he that would not believe in allah Most high and would not encourage the feeding of the indignant. So no friend hath he here this day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds. " - Koran 31-37


132 posted on 09/14/2002 12:32:58 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: cake_crumb
HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Why?

I'm a baby boomer.

133 posted on 09/14/2002 12:33:41 PM PDT by meia
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To: meia
If you think there "are a lot of articles like this one," why not do us all a favor and post 6 or 8 more?

Enlighten us, oh Benificent One-- or get your head out of your a&& and face reality.
134 posted on 09/14/2002 12:37:00 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Jim Scott
not to mention that the New Covenant from the New Testament redefines or directly supersedes anything in the Old Testament ... of course non-believers don't understand it (2nd Corinthians 4:4, Daniel 12:10) ... that's why none of them can find one thing in the New Testament to justify anything similar to the ongoing jihad they declare ...
135 posted on 09/14/2002 12:37:34 PM PDT by Bobby777
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To: meia
"Is this your first post?"

"No."

Ooo. You answered a QUESTION! Careful you don't overstrain yourself with that little foray into directness, dear.

136 posted on 09/14/2002 12:48:09 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: meia
"Why? I'm a baby boomer."

Your comprehension level suggests a child, that's why.

137 posted on 09/14/2002 12:53:19 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: swarthyguy
"role model or mentor?"

No, just the coach of his kid's soccer team.
138 posted on 09/14/2002 12:55:51 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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Comment #139 Removed by Moderator

To: cake_crumb
They're not all like that, but THESE guys represent the trend

You know I was actually shocked about our experience last night. I expected that the guys at the booth would be the exact opposite of the ones you read about in the news. I figured the booth was, itself, part of their PR campaign.

Now I think they are in on the stuff you posted about. Every bit of their behavior was shifty and evasive. They often refused to answer questions directly. I asked them about their version of heaven and they went into a long elaborate thing which I lost track of in the process of trying to listen. These guys were the best BSer's I have come across in a long time. It was really scary.

When they did reply to a question you had to read between the lines. As in, would you be more loyal to your fellow muslims than to protecting our country, and the reply was = loyalty to other muslims comes first.

I truly came away from this experience believing we are in much deeper doo-doo than I thought just yesterday.

140 posted on 09/14/2002 1:25:20 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: JohnathanRGalt
Adlouni, 38, has not been charged, but he is one of at least three Portland-area men the FBI has focused on in its investigation of suspected terror links to Oregon and the Northwest. He runs an online Muslim business directory in Southwest Portland.

Scroll back to post number 73 for all of this.

Help, friend. They are infltrating the Northwest and I think they are very successful.

141 posted on 09/14/2002 1:37:49 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: inflorida
They didn't lie and kill in the name of Christianity

Not only that but I bet there were not sadistic videos sold at their churches and used to recruit new members.

142 posted on 09/14/2002 1:38:56 PM PDT by MarMema
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Comment #143 Removed by Moderator

To: tomkat
if i should happen to be close enough to witness an attempted terrorist attack on my nation, i will do my best to eradicate the source of same, by whatever means come to hand

And I right beside you, though I will need my trusty shotgun.
Hopefully, with enough of us around, it will be more like the plane where the one guy was overwhelmed and then sedated by the doctor on-board. LOL. Todd Beamer lives on in spirit.

144 posted on 09/14/2002 1:45:08 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: meia
LOL....@ this article, by Shaykhe Abdal-Hakim Murad, ALSO found in "Q-News"

Nice, strong, impressive title: Recapturing Islam From the Terrorists.

Sounds like it's be all about how moderate Muslims must make a stand and police their own, or face annihilation from within.

Unfortunately, he opens with a whining paragraph about suicide bombings and mosques, and how the president's condemnation of the backlash against Muslims from September 11 is "pathetic" and accuses President Bush of bring "unable to rise above clichés".

"As New York turns its gap-toothed face to the sky, wondering if the worst is yet to come, In comparison with the pathetic near-silence that hovered around mosques and major organisations during the Rushdie and Gulf War debacles, the communities now seem alert to their cultural situation and its potential precariousness. Many of the condemnations have been more impressive than those of the American President, who seems unable to rise above clichés"

Not even a token comdemnation of 9/11 in the opening paragraph of an article ABOUT 9/11. Interesting. The whole PARAGRAPH is a cliché. It's about the Muslim cult of victimhood.

He goes on with (Select quotes)

1:) "It is not at all clear that this escalation will be terminated by further anti-terrorist legislation, further billions for the FBI, or retina scans at Terminal Three."

We didn't use legislation (despite the "it's an illegal war" whiners, retinal scans OR the FBI to utterly destroy the Taliban. WE CARPET BOMBED THE SOBs.

2:) "...the attacks may be of more historical significance as an announcement to the militant subculture that a Star-Wars superpower is utterly vulnerable to a handful of lightly-armed young men. There could well be more and worse to come."

If another attack comes, the next response will be a nuke. What part of "total annihilation" (--VP Dick Cheny, Pres Bush) does the shayke not understand? Are those two words too big?

"Why is there so much hatred of the United States, and so much yearning to poke it in the eye?"

We gave your countries way to much aid money and oil money, and you can't stand it.

I've had enough of whiny, Cult of Victimhood propaganda. Next time, try a more RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

145 posted on 09/14/2002 2:03:33 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: Ed B.
I don't care if they live their lives ruled by the qu Ran. I only care about whether or not they believe in murder, and whether or not they believe in freedon of self governance and peace. That is an individual thing, which could become a cultural thing, and NOT a religious thing.
146 posted on 09/14/2002 2:07:42 PM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: meia
The reality is we are an Umma that no longer realises that Allah is the power behind all power; that it is Allah who subjugates one people to another; that He gives dominion to whom He pleases and He takes it away from whom He pleases.

According to this "Reasoned and Articulate View of Islam", Allah promotes slavery.

... Reverend Amos Brown said in no uncertain terms that America must ask herself what she has done either wittingly or unwittingly to incur the wrath and hate of people around the world. Muslims on the other hand, generally prefer to attack the West as the sole reason for their problems when the truth is we are bankrupt as a religious community and our spiritual bankruptcy has led to our inability to even deliver the message of Islam to Westerners in a time when they were giving us platforms to do so.

Very telling passage.

It is ironic that the Western media while producing many vile programs on Islam

Name two.

has also produced and aired material of the highest quality with a high level of accuracy only to be vilified by Muslims because it was not good enough. Where is our media? Where are our spokespeople? Where are our literary figures? The truth is we don’t have any -

Is that why WE have to understand Islam, and Islam is unable policing its own? I don't think this is an acceptable excuse at all.

147 posted on 09/14/2002 2:21:39 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: tomkat
"So are you saying that this means all Muslims are just like this?"

"might be a good idea if the ones that aren't 'like this' wear a flag hat or somethin', least for the next year or two."

THAT WAS HILLARIOUS!!!

THAT MEIA NEEDS TO MOVE ON OUTTA HERE...HE IS IN OVER HIS TURBAN!!!

148 posted on 09/14/2002 10:01:24 PM PDT by crazykatz
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To: meia
meia...are you a muslim??
149 posted on 09/15/2002 6:33:49 AM PDT by kimosabe31
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To: kimosabe31
meia...are you a muslim??

No.

150 posted on 09/15/2002 7:56:43 AM PDT by meia
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