Portland Jews Brace for Assault by 'Jews for Jesus' (anti-Christian Bigotry Alert!)

Torah Atlanta ^ | 2002 | Paul Haist

[lodwick]

bttt

[Alouette]

My Jewish friends say JFJ "oh well what the hell"...the same as they do for Orthodox Jews and extremely liberal Jews and Catholics and Jehovah's witnesses and Muslims and Taoists and atheists and drunks and gays and straights and idiots and nerds and , well, regular folks just like you and me........"oh well what the hell".. "whatever lets you sleep at night"...tolerance in the spiritual realm my friends, tolerance

"Oh well what the hell" translates to "I don't give a rat's @**" and that is not the same thing as "tolerance".

[Jorge]

Please read John chapter 3. Understand who Christ is talking to - Nicodemus, the mopst religous of the most religous, a member of the ruling council. Christ told him, I tell YOU, NO ONE can see the kingdon of God without being reborn ... YOU must be born again.

Exactly. And there are several other scriptures which support this.

[pocat]

Sorry. I didn't mean TOTAL goof. I just think he needs to stick to activities as you mentioned. I read his book, The New World Order, years ago, and I loved it.

[chemainus]

explain in detail and logically the difference

[LostTribe]

>Jesus and all of the early Believers were Jewish

No, that is not the case.  But most of the early Believers were Israelites.  Jews are Israelites are not at all the same.  But to get to your point we need to straighten out any misunderstanding about the meaning of the word GENTILE, and it's proper use.  
 
GENTILE is a generic word. Like the words FOREIGNER and STRANGER it has no specific meaning until the user gives it a specific context. A Foreigner to one person is a Countryman to another.  A Stranger to one person is a Friend to another. A Gentile to one group of people is a Relative of another group.

GENTILE simply means "not one of us", or "not one of our group". Mormons call non-Mormons "Gentiles", and Jews call non-Jews "Gentiles". But outside a specific context the word Gentile does not stand on it's own.  When used as slang, "Gentiles" are (1) Any who are "uninitiated", as in amateurs or neophites, (2) Those who are naive, like potential victims, or clients, (3) Anyone not of our group, like competing sports teams or competing companies.  

For Example: The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are a unique sub-set of Gentiles who are Israelites, but are not Jews. Viewed from a Jewish perspective, being non-Jews they are Gentiles. But viewed from an Israelite perspective they are not Gentiles but fellow Israelites. 

Matthew 10:5-6  These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.  But go rather to the Lost Sheep of The House of Israel."

We need to remember the Title House of Israel was assigned to the Northern Kingdom when the Davidic Kingdom split. The Northern Kingdom was never Jewish, therefore Jesus command to go FIRST to the Lost Sheep of The House of Israel was NOT a command to go first to lost Jews.

Jesus was both an Israelite and a Jew.  He said "do not go to Israelite Gentiles." (That is, "do not go to non-Israelites.") A common misinterpretation has Him referring to Jewish Gentiles, saying "do not go to non-Jews. That is not correct.

The (post Davidic) House of Israel soon became The Lost Tribes of Israel who won their freedom from the Assyrians ~610 BC. These 5 MILLION Israelites spread quickly to the West and North as they exploded into history as The CELTS, later known as Europeans and Americans. It was to these non-Jewish Israelites in Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, etc. that Jesus first sent his 12 apostles.

These Northern Kingdom Israelites were not Jews, but were Gentiles in the Jewish sense.  However they were not Gentiles in the Israelite sense because as offspring of Jacob/Israel they WERE Israelites. This huge Celtic Kingdom of Israelites was simply called the The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.

These ISRAELITE CELTIC GENTILES made up the bulk of the early Christians and their offspring are the backbone of Christianity today. All the promises their ancestors received as Israelites are still good, for Gods inheritance has no statute of limitations.

[LostTribe]

>"Perhaps you have never seen a Jew before, they often look somewhat like me."
> So the best Jew spotters in the world could not tell that this blonde-haired blue eyed kid from Tennessee was 100% Jewish.

There are lots of people who think they can spot a Jew by his looks.  They seem to think he should look somewhat like Yassir Arafat. {ggg}.  But David of the OT was "ruddy and fair, like an Irishman.  Of course he was not Jewish, but was an Israelite, and it was from his line (plus that of Levites and Benjamites) that Jews were created many generations downstream.

Here are just a few other Jews who do not look like Yassir Arafat, nor the classic stereotype of a "Hebrew" or "Semite".   In fact, they could easily be confused with their Celtic cousins.

Joseph Lieberman, Paul Newman, Ted Koppel, Harrison Ford, Efrem Zimbalist, Jr., Kirk Douglas, Kevin Costner, Stephen Breyer, Yitzhak Rabin, Michael Landon, Lorne Greene, Mike Wallace, Benjamin Netanyahu, William Shatner, Douglas Fairbanks, Cary Grant, Leonard Bernstein, Paul Simon, Ariel Sharon, David Frost, Morley Safer, Ari Fleischer,

Jack Benny, Alan King, Casper Weinberger, Carl Reiner, George Burns, Red Buttons, Sam Levinson, Bernard Goldberg, Robert Downey Jr., Dustin Hoffman, Michael Douglas, Peter Sellers, Tony Curtis, Edward G. Robinson, Wolf Blitzer, Mel Torme, Paul Wellstone, Peter Falk, Leonard Nimoy, Jerry Springer, Arlen Spector, William Cohen,

Barry Goldwater, Robert Rubin, William Roth, Howard Metzenbaum, Hyman Rickover, Robert Reich, Russ Feinberg, Stanley Mosk, Arthur Burns, Milton Friedman, Bill Kristol, Victor Borge, William Kristol, Warren Rudman, etc., etc, etc.

That's because The Celts and the Jews are genetic cousins, and all are Hebrews, Semites, and Israelites.  (...without getting into the whole Khazarite controversy...)

See My LostTribe Profile for more details...

[LostTribe]

> please don't waste my time about "jewish" vs. Hebrews etc

Perhaps you'd care to explain for all of us EXACTLY what you find wrong with these historical definitions of HEBREW, SEMITE, ISRAELITE, and JEW.

Four Thousand years ago, Abraham (a great-great grandson of Shem, a son of Noah) and a small group of Hebrews (of which there were & are many varieties) migrated from southern Iraq to Canaan (~Palestine). Several generations later, around 1853 BC, his Grandson Jacob (who was renamed Israel) and his 12 Sons and families moved to Egypt. As offspring of Shem, they were called "Shemites" or "Semites", as were his many other offspring.

~1453 BC, now as the 12 Tribes of the 12 Sons of Israel, and over 3 Million strong, these Semites bailed out of Egypt in the well-documented overland EXODUS and fled back to ~Palestine.  But the Tribes “couldn't all get along” there, so ~922 BC these 5 Million Israelites split into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms.

(In actual numbers, 5 Million people is about the same size as Ireland, Norway, Denmark or Israel today, and was 10% of the estimated 50 Million world population at that time. The world population is now ONE HUNDRED TIMES as large. Compared to todays 6 Billion people, the Israelites relative population would have been over twice as large as the United States of America!)

The very large Northern Kingdom of Israel was made up of 10 of the Tribes. Inheriting the Kingly names which applied to all 12 Tribes before the split, the Northern Kingdom (alone) becomes known as the Kingdom of Israel or House of Israel, (also House of Joseph, House of Ephriam, House of Isaac, and House of Omri), and is led by the northern Tribe of Ephraim.

Two hundred years later these Northern Israelites were taken into captivity by the Assyrians (~722 BC) and relocated to the northern Fertile Crescent area of Iraq/Iran. They were not diligent in updating their eMail addresses, thus were called, by some, the "Lost Tribes", or "Lost Sheep" or "Lost Children" of the Kingdom or House of Israel. (However at ~1/12 or more of the worlds population it seems unlikely they would actually disappear, or get "lost". The global population now ~75 Million.)

A hundred years later, this "lost" Northern Kingdom of Israel with now over 6 Million Israelites helped the Medes and Persians overthrow the Assyrians, then escaped north through the Caucasus Mountains and around the Black and Caspian Seas, to explode into history ~610 BC as The Celts. These Celts mixed with (and fought against) each other, and with other scattered Israelites (proto-Celts) who had escaped from Egypt by sea nearly a thousand years earlier, before the overland Exodus. Also, with other Israelites who migrated from Palestine after the overland Exodus but before the Assyrian captivity and who had already established numerous outposts in Europe and elsewhere.

These Millions of Celts grew to become Tens, then Hundreds of Millions as they migrated in waves westward and northwest to Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonika, Phillipi, Collosse, to what is today Hallstatt, Austria and Neuchatel, Switzerland (where exist major Celtic digs and museums) and beyond, to totally dominate Northern and Western Europe. These Celts (also as Cimmerians, Scythians, Danaoi, Massagetae, Milesians, Masilia, Sarmatians, Germani, Goths, Franks, Gauls, Lombards, Belgae, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vandals, Danes, Normans, and other assorted "Barbarians") are the rootstock of today’s Europeans and Americans who became the backbone of global Christianity.

The much smaller Southern Kingdom was made up of the Tribe of Judah & a mix of Levites and Benjamites. It was also known as the Kingdom of Judah or House of Judah. These Southern Israelites (aka Judeans) were taken captive in ~587 BC and removed to Babylon. Only ~50,000 Judeans returned to Palestine ~70 years later. They and their offspring are called Jews.

[Ms. AntiFeminazi]

A rather dangerous and pointless discussion you two are having, unless one of you actually believes he will convince the other of his argument.

I agree with you. This thread is a bit distressing to watch.

I had a wonderful pastor who once did a sermon on the description of Hell. He put it very simply:

Hell is separation from God.

It doesn't matter to me if Hell is a physical place or a spiritual place. I know it is somewhere I do not want to be.

[Sweet Hour of Prayer]

I've read and re-read your writings about the "Lost Tribe", however, I don't understand how you can dispute that the original followers (Peter, James, John, Mark, Apollos, Paul) of Jesus Christ were ethnic and religious Jews. They initially spoke in the synagogues to other Jews until they were run off and started meeting in private homes. Initially, these people practiced Judiasm making them Jews.

[LostTribe]

> I don't understand how you can dispute that the original followers (Peter, James, John, Mark, Apollos, Paul) of Jesus Christ were ethnic and religious Jews.

Hello!  Oh, I certainly don't dispute that.  The disciples you mention were all Jews, Benjamites as I recall.  (I don't know about Apollos without looking it up.)

I was thinking of the people TO WHOM Jesus first sent his disciples in Galatia and other heavily Celtic lands.  Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

[drlevy88]

I'd be interested in knowing which Christian denomination(s) you are referring to here.

Anglican/Episcopalian, of course ('s what I said :-)

I can overlook differences in methods of the baptism ceremony itself, since I do not believe physical baptism to be salvific in nature. Getting dunked or getting splashed or sprinkled, all are in some sense symbolic declarations of what has happened to you in Christ. However KJV's creation of a new, specialized word for "immersed" -- in my opinion -- robs other scripture verses of the impact they could have in English translation, such as references to baptism in the Holy Spirit.

[drlevy88]

I knew of a women (in a internet list) who had been converted in her youth from Judaism to Christianity, by a man who was living in the Jewish community in Jerusalem, and posing as an Orthodox Jew. Having being brought into the religion by such tactics, she seemed to have double-vision on everything, hesitated always between being a Christian or returning to Judaism, and seemed a most unhappy soul.

Some historical perspective would show that most Jewish Christians of the New Testament held a more or less Orthodox Jewish viewpoint. So much so, that reversion to a "religion of works" (declaring the cross work of Jesus Christ to be valueless) was a perennial problem in the early church.

[drlevy88]

Liars are and deceivers are groups who, under pretenses of being Jewish, go out and try to convert other Jews.

You neglect to mention that this definition hinges on theology that (gasp, shock) differs between rabbinic 'judaism' and New Testament Christianity.

[drlevy88]

So desperate to convert someone? Go stand by a mosque and hand out your leaflets and then come back and tell me what a hard-*ss Jew I am.

You repeatedly ignore that if Christian Jews were to try this, it would be a most unproductive route to evangelizing Arab Muslims. A Jew is the last person they'd trust. We may wish it were otherwise but there is this little matter of a historical enmity going well back before Mohammed. There ARE Christian missionaries in Muslim countries, as well as missionaries to Muslims in highly Muslim areas of Western countries. I know some of these missionaries personally. They have the patience of Job. This is not a matter of a Billy Graham call one night in a tent, this requires relationships that are worked on for years and years.

[LostTribe]

>As messianics

???

>do you and your "friend"

This site is about HISTORY, both Archeological and Biblical. It is NOT about Christian or Jewish Identity, British Israelism, White Power or anti-Semitism, so if that's what you're looking for, SCRAM! Neither is it about culture or tradition; it is about HISTORY. I speak for no one else and no one speaks for me, so WYSIWYG. If you are a serious student of HISTORY, and have an open mind, read on...

>acknowledge Oral Law

This site is about HISTORY, both Archeological and Biblical. It is NOT about Christian or Jewish Identity, British Israelism, White Power or anti-Semitism, so if that's what you're looking for, SCRAM! Neither is it about culture or tradition; it is about HISTORY. I speak for no one else and no one speaks for me, so WYSIWYG. If you are a serious student of HISTORY, and have an open mind, read on...

>- Principles of Jewish Law transmitted originally to Moshe (Moses) by G-d at Mt. Sinai?

There was no "Jewish Law" since there were no Jews at that time.  Moses was not a Jew, neither were any of the Israelites in Egypt. There would be no Jews for another 50 generations or so.

My position is right here.
 

[Marysecretary]

He writes well. He did another one on the end times that I read a few years back. He's putting it out again. It's worth the read. Maryxxx