Victim wrenches shotgun from carjacker

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | 9-19-02 | Jeremy Kohler

[Dave S]

He fortunately had his own weapon and apparently was carrying legally since the story does not say otherwise.

The only way he could have been legally carrying that weapon in his car is if it was locked in the trunk in a locked container. Carrying it on his person (especially if concealed)is a felony in Missouri. There is no CCW. Voted down by public several years ago. I doubt the police will charge him.

[Shooter 2.5]

Carjacking used to be a serious problem in Florida until they passed the CCW law and the problem went away. It went away except for the tourists that were using cars that had rental tags on them. After the tags were removed and the bad guys couldn't tell the unarmed tourists from the armed Floridians, the problem went away again.
Missouri doesn't have any sort of CCW law on their books. They don't have "Shall Issue" or "May Issue". They are one of only six states in the Union like that. The others are Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, Wisconsin and Ohio. Ohio, due to lawsuits, may make the jump straight to a "Shall Issue" as soon as the Supremes make up their mind.

[Dave S]

I understand the sentiment, but shooting someone in the back when they are running away....? That might be difficult to explain to the judge!

In Missouri can fire only when your life is at stake. When the attacker is running away, you become the criminal if you fire. Also you are on shaky ground if you fire in self defense any where except your home or your own business.

[Shooter 2.5]

Using the right ammunition in a .9MM brings it close to 90% One Shot Stops. I don't have Marshal's book available so I can't give you the correct percentage but there really isn't that much difference anymore between the calibers from .38/9MM and above.

[Pining_4_TX]

Shoot to kill. Reduce the burden on an overloaded judicial system.

Not to mention the fact that these thugs will probably be out in a year or two to do it again.

[Catspaw]

I wouldn't have aimed high. Think of it as a service to the community.

[ArcLight]

shoot to kill? Rubbish. The man demonstrated just how cool and smart he was by resisting such a temptation. If he'd killed them, he'd be the one in the dock, rightly or wrongly. As it is, he's alive and a hero. Good work.

[AdA$tra]

Unless and until, we clear Jeff City of Democrats and RINOs, Missouri will NEVER see CCW.

My Brother-in-Law is a State Rep. in Missouri. He supports CCW whole heartedly. We passsed it in Kansas, but Governor RINO vetoed it. Weasel.

[Jason_b]

Is it possible to asstert that rather than running away, that they were merely "running for cover" while still intending to engage? Just because someone's back is turned does not mean that he is not an immediate threat. I wonder how the law looks at such a situation.

[FairWitness]

the only thing I can think of is that he had the 9mm in his truck and somehow got it outside to use it.....but I cannot imagine how he could grab the shotgun away from the thugs while holding the 9mm.

My assumption after reading the story was that his 9mm was in his truck, as you suggest. The guy (not "victim" because he wouldn't let himself be one) was lucky as well as brave to go through the sequence of events described.

[Shooter 2.5]

That's good advice.
It's been argued that in Texas, you can shoot in the back to recover property but the situations are vague and I'm not the sort to prove one way or the other.
There is also a term that I think is called "Continuation of Force". It's the scenario that the shooter believes that the gunfight is still in progress and the fleeing suspect is only seeking cover to continue. Again, that would be argued in court and the smart person would make sure that it never reaches that stage. In most shootings the CCW holder will have to face a Grand Jury and I found out Saturday that in every case in Texas, the CCW holder was no-billed. In two cases, the civil suits cost one a quarter of a million and the other had to declare bankruptcy.

[FairWitness]

The only way he could have been legally carrying that weapon in his car is if it was locked in the trunk in a locked container.

I am not that familiar with the "Yukon" this guy was driving to know if it has a "trunk" or not. If you drive a truck/pickup what is the proper storage?

[AdA$tra]

If you drive a truck/pickup what is the proper storage?

In Kansas, the rack in the back window is a good place unless you are in any of our larger cities where the RINO's have prevailed in banning such obscene displays of our Constitutional rights.

[Shooter 2.5]

Again, it depends on which 9MM ammunition. Get a copy of Evan Marshal's "Street Stoppers". It has a chapter on Frangibles and Hollow points.

[Delbert]

I was robbed at gunpoint once a couple of years ago. After complying with the robbers demands, he told me to turn around and get down on my knees. I was certain I was going to be excecuted. As I went in a downward motion, I had what seemed an eternity to send a 911 up to The Lord, I placed my
right foot back behind me in a sprint start position. As soon as I got down,I lept up like a jack rabbit. Must have cleared about 5 or 6 feet in a single action. When I landed I had managed to put the corner of my jeep between me and the asshole, I hit the ground running , not in a straight pattern either..I zig zagged back and forth every 3 or 4 strides left to right. The guy fired off 2 shots at me. I ended up in traffic of a 4 lane road with cars screeching all around me. He was going to have to be a damned good shot to hit me as a moving zig zag target. And I will never go down like a sheep for anyone.

[Shooter 2.5]

http://petej55.home.mindspring.com/one.shot.stops.htm

[RogueIsland]

another carrying a Tec-9 assault weapon

Ha ha ha! That's a joke, right? POS Poser Weapon maybe, but that unreliable, low quality piece of crud is certainly no "assault weapon" (whatever that may be since there is no military definition of "assault weapon").

[Dave S]

Just because someone's back is turned does not mean that he is not an immediate threat. I wonder how the law looks at such a situation.

I wouldnt want to defend myself against that charge.