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Victim wrenches shotgun from carjacker
St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | 9-19-02 | Jeremy Kohler

Posted on 09/19/2002 6:34:23 AM PDT by FairWitness

Edited on 05/11/2004 10:58:38 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: FairWitness
am not that familiar with the "Yukon" this guy was driving to know if it has a "trunk" or not. If you drive a truck/pickup what is the proper storage?

Good question. Not sure but the weapon can not be within reach and can not be in glove compartment or under the seat. Ammo has to be stored separately. Maybe in one of those locked toolboxes you sometimes see in trucks. Guess the answer is drive slowly through Missouri if you have a weapon in your Truck.

41 posted on 09/19/2002 9:02:35 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: jdogbearhunter
I understand the sentiment, but shooting someone in the back when they are running away....? That might be difficult to explain to the judge!

That's why you make sure you kill them all and then leave the scene. Who's going to care about a bunch of worthless thugs, anyway? The world is a better place without them and they have it coming to them. If anyone ever messes with me and my family, they better be warned that I shoot first and ask questions later. Keep the people armed!!!! It's our last line of defense against whatever this crazy world throws at us.

42 posted on 09/19/2002 9:31:08 AM PDT by YoungKentuckyConservative
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To: Dave S
Same in New Jersey, and I'm hearing that they will look for ANY excuse to take your gun away.
43 posted on 09/19/2002 9:58:26 AM PDT by hot august night
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To: FairWitness
He pumped off four shots in rapid succession -- aiming high to miss, he said.

Why?


44 posted on 09/19/2002 10:03:50 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: FairWitness

Mossberg Cruiser .410 gauge shotgun--4 to 5 load capacity (depending on length of shell) Great all-round automotive defense system. 18.5 inch over-all length and sits real nice between the front passenger seat and center console.

45 posted on 09/19/2002 10:06:18 AM PDT by two23
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To: goldstategop
The potential victim has the right to carry a weapon, but not concealed:

Missouri Constitution, Bill of Rights, Article I, Section 23, states:

"That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in the defense of his home, person, and property, or when lawfully summoned in the aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."

46 posted on 09/19/2002 10:31:45 AM PDT by tahiti
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To: donozark
I live in Missouri. We do not need a CCW law, besides it would be unconsitutional. You can only change the constitution with an amendment not a law.

I suggest that all Missourian's exert their constitutional right as stated in the Missouri Constitution:

Missouri Constitution, Bill of Rights, Article I, Section 23, states:

"That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in the defense of his home, person, and property, or when lawfully summoned in the aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."

47 posted on 09/19/2002 10:35:27 AM PDT by tahiti
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To: Dave S
Missouri Constitution, Bill of Rights, Article I, Section 23, states:

"That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in the defense of his home, person, and property, or when lawfully summoned in the aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons.

Bear means to "wear on oneself." It appears to me that there can be no law prohibiting a Missouri citizen from wearing an "arm" on oneself, in full view, whether in your car on a public road, in a school, in a park, walking on a street, at the Edward Jones Dome, in a courthouse, firehouse, or police station.

These are all taxpayer paid for facilities. Only on private property can a citizen be denied a constitutionally guaranteed right.

Remember, this is the Missouri Bill of Rights, not privileges.

48 posted on 09/19/2002 10:52:11 AM PDT by tahiti
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To: FairWitness
True story: a Woman Marine I knew was pulling out of a gas station when some bank robbers came barreling out of a bank and the cops were arriving for the alarm. One robber jumped on the hood of the WM's car, aimed the gun at her, and screamed, "DRIVE!"

She drove. She quickly got onto the freeway, got her 'Stang up to 100+ MPH, and started giving the guy on the hood a feral grin...

The guy waved the gun and screamed, "STOP!"

She stood on the brake pedal. Sir Isaac's Second Law took over. The robber bounced, rolled, and got the mother of all road rash.

49 posted on 09/19/2002 10:57:52 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Dave S
"Also you are on shaky ground if you fire in self defense any where except your home or your own business."

Missouri Constitution, Bill of Rights, Article I, Section 23, states:

"That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in the defense of his home, person, and property, or when lawfully summoned in the aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons."

So, if your "property," a SUV, is being carjacked, and the carjackers are threatening to kill you to get possession of your property, you would be on "shaky ground" to constitutionally defend your "...person, and property...?"

That kind of reasoning is legalistic sophistry at it's best.

That is why our rights are being constantly eroded.

50 posted on 09/19/2002 10:58:19 AM PDT by tahiti
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To: FairWitness
Man I love reading stories like this. This is a little like the guy in Florida who pulled a 45 from under his pillow to stop 2 guys from killing him and raping his daughter. I just feel so good to see average citizens empowered. You should keep track of this story, if he charged with carrying a concealed weapon I would be happy to contribute to his legal defense.
51 posted on 09/19/2002 11:03:30 AM PDT by Cicero5
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To: tahiti
It stops being "self-defense" when the attackers are fleeing.
52 posted on 09/19/2002 11:07:30 AM PDT by Poohbah
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To: Cicero5
You should keep track of this story, if he charged with carrying a concealed weapon I would be happy to contribute to his legal defense.

I'll try to do that (keep track of the story), though since they do not give the victim's name (for his safety apparently) it will be difficult.

53 posted on 09/19/2002 1:39:32 PM PDT by FairWitness
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To: tahiti
Bear means to "wear on oneself." It appears to me that there can be no law prohibiting a Missouri citizen from wearing an "arm" on oneself, in full view, whether in your car on a public road, in a school, in a park, walking on a street, at the Edward Jones Dome, in a courthouse, firehouse, or police station.

What ivory tower do you live in? Tell you what if you are so frigging bright, there is a football game at the Edward Jones Dome Monday night. Say you wear your holster down to the dome and see what happens?

As far as wearing the holster in your car, several cases I believe have already come up where the cops have claimed that the weapon is "concealed" unless they can clearly see as they approach the car.

54 posted on 09/19/2002 2:13:32 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: FairWitness
I'm not one to dictate how a person should spend his/her time or when, but if this man has a 6 year old child, what is he doing out at 1AM? If he works graveyard, I can understand...
55 posted on 09/19/2002 2:16:21 PM PDT by TamiPie
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To: tahiti
So, if your "property," a SUV, is being carjacked, and the carjackers are threatening to kill you to get possession of your property, you would be on "shaky ground" to constitutionally defend your "...person, and property...?"

If you acted reasonably you probably wouldnt be charged but if you were pulled over for a parking ticket and either informed the cop you had a weapon or he discovered it on his own, you would likely be arrested. Now if you want to start your the Ghandi thing thats fine but dont lead others to think that they can wear a gun in a holster in their car in be legal. They might lose their right to own a gun.

56 posted on 09/19/2002 2:19:52 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: FairWitness
Victim wrenches shotgun from carjacker

He doesn't sound like much of a victim to me. Way to go!!!!!

57 posted on 09/19/2002 2:24:39 PM PDT by Richard Kimball
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To: FairWitness
"They wanted to murder me," the victim said Wednesday. "After I did what they asked me to do. I'm glad to be alive. I'm glad to still be here. To see my son."

Not sure why this would surprise anybody. Congrats to this man for saving his life and being prepared (a.k.a., gun owner).

58 posted on 09/19/2002 2:29:17 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: FairWitness
Investigators recovered the assault weapon, which police said the suspects tossed out the window during the chase, and a .38-caliber revolver found in the Alero. They were still searching for a .22-caliber pistol the suspects said they also discarded.

Somebody found it, and will maybe someday need it for a "throwdown".

59 posted on 09/19/2002 3:58:51 PM PDT by packrat01
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To: tahiti
I do not disagree with your reasoning/State Constitutional arguments. However, a couple of years ago a man wore a belt and holster with a "hog-leg" in the holster into a doctors office in a nearby city. He was escorted out by the CAT Team. He broke no laws. But the reality of the situation is, you just ain't gonna get away with that sort of thing nowadays.

So yes, we DO need a CCW. We would have had one 3 years ago but for the corruption in St.L. As it was, we only lost by 3%. NRA has promised to re-visit this issue, if/when we get a Republican Governor. We fought hard for it last time. GOA and NRA. NRA spent $3.2 million in effort to pass. Will it pass next time? Hopefully....but not with Jimminy Cricket in the Governor's Mansion in Jeff City.

60 posted on 09/19/2002 4:50:02 PM PDT by donozark
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