Monsignor says gays shouldn't be priests

Washington Times ^ | 9/20/02 | Larry Witham

[kattracks]

A Vatican official said today that homosexuals should not be recruited for the Catholic priesthood because they will undermine its mission and ministry.

Writing in the influential Jesuit journal America, Monsignor Andrew R. Baker of the Vatican's Congregation of Bishops in Rome said "same sex attraction" gives rise to an array of problems.

[Coeur de Lion]

All priests on entering the seminary should be made to make a vow of celibacy. Any hanky panky and they're out. A celibate homosexual should prove to be no problem for the priesthood. The problem here is the church has chosen to look the other way and allow their perverse faggotry. On top of that they've created a hostile environment for heterosexual men in the seminaries. If it's necessary to solve this problem by getting rid of all the homosexuals, so be it.

[ppaul]

A celibate homosexual should prove to be no problem for the priesthood.

Yeah. Right.
LOL!

[Jim Noble]

>>"Ordinary common sense tells us that such ministry is from God"-Bishop Gumbleton<<

What does the Bible tell us? What does the Church tell us? What does the Tradition tell us?

We don't need Bishops for common sense. Bishop Gumbleton did not rise to his high position because of his extraordinary common sense.

He is a Roman Catholic bishop to further the Catholic faith, not to preach what to him seems to be common sense, but rather to preach that homosexuality is an abomination (Bible), an objective disorder (RCC), and completely unacceptable (the tradition).

I don't object, personally, to Gumbleton's views. I do object to faithless liars who exploit the meek for their donations and for their admiration.

[Caipirabob]

A Vatican official said today that homosexuals should not be recruited for the Catholic priesthood because they will undermine its mission and ministry.

Apparently "Running the Vatican for Dummies" has hit the stands.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

All priests on entering the seminary should be made to make a vow of celibacy.

One doesn't enter a seminary as a priest. One leaves the seminary and gets ordained, after taking vows in the case of religious orders and promises to the bishop in a diocese, as a priest. The seminary is a training and proving ground and should be weeding out those who were banned by Vatican decree in 1961 from ordination.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

BISHOP THOMAS J. GUMBLETON
4860 15th Street
Detroit, Michigan 48208
313-898-3328

In a counterargument in the journal, U.S. Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton of Detroit, one of the most liberal bishops in the U.S. hierarchy, said homosexual priests are able to keep vows and serve the church.

Bishop Gumbleton decried the "scapegoating of homosexual priests and seminarians" for the sex-abuse crisis in the church.

"Without being aware of it," he said, "untold numbers of people in the church have been blessed by the compassionate and healing ministry of gay priests and bishops. Ordinary common sense tells us that such ministry is from God."

Another bishop defiantly telling Rome to stick it. They weren't supposed to be ordained in the first place Thomas. It doesn't matter what you have deluded yourself into believing. Either be obedient or pack your bags and get out.

"Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers."
Careful Selection And Training Of Candidates For The States Of Perfection And Sacred Orders 2 February 1961

[Varda]

bttt

[Desdemona]

ping

[maryz]

The seminary is a training and proving ground and should be weeding out those who were banned by Vatican decree in 1961 [i.e.,homosexuals] from ordination.

Let me just repeat your reference to the 1961 decree, since the author of this piece doesn't seem to have heard of it.

That aside, I wouldn't have believed America would publish Baker's piece, even with a countering piece.

[Desdemona]

"First and foremost among them is the possible simultaneous manifestation of other serious problems such as substance abuse, sexual addiction and depression," the monsignor wrote.

Homosexual men, he said, "may be more familiar with certain patterns and techniques of deception and repression, either conscious or subconscious, which were learned in trying to deal with their tendencies in a largely heterosexual environment."

Could this, maybe, be a contributing factor to all the alcohol rehab facilities out there for priests? I know an awful lot of priests who are dried out alcoholics. And there are MANY who are chain smokers. Depression can lead to all sorts of problems. Hmmm..... Food for thought.

[John O]

"Without being aware of it," he said, "untold numbers of people in the church have been blessed by the compassionate and healing ministry of gay priests and bishops.

After which the SAD priest or bishop retired to the sacristy and buggered an altar boy until he could no longer stand.

Ordinary common sense tells us that such ministry is from God."

In the bible God even used a jackass to get His word across. I guess He'll even use SADs if the situation requires it. That doesn't mean that He approves of them (He says that they should be killed as abominations)

God Save America (Please)

[Polycarp]

Monsignor Andrew R. Baker of the Vatican's Congregation of Bishops in Rome said "same sex attraction" gives rise to an array of problems.

"First and foremost among them is the possible simultaneous manifestation of other serious problems such as substance abuse, sexual addiction and depression," the monsignor wrote.

Homosexual men, he said, "may be more familiar with certain patterns and techniques of deception and repression, either conscious or subconscious, which were learned in trying to deal with their tendencies in a largely heterosexual environment."

Monsignor Baker cited a 1997 letter from the Vatican's Congregation for Divine Worship that argues against admitting candidates to seminaries "if there exists a prudent doubt regarding the candidate's suitability."

[Romulus]

"First and foremost among them is the possible simultaneous manifestation of other serious problems such as substance abuse, sexual addiction and depression," the monsignor wrote...The homosexual priest, moreover, cannot be "genuinely a sign of Christ's spousal love for the church,"

Unfortunate inversion of relative importance, perhaps inevitable in a culture where process-mastering technocrats predominate over mystics.

But overall a welcome message nevertheless.

[NYer]

Sorry, kattrack, for the double post!

The comment may be the first by a Vatican official that homosexual orientation may be changed.

Can you say ALLELULIA!! ?

[saradippity]

Anticipating the ugly letters that will respond to Msgr.Baker's article to be printed in the next edition of America,we should buy or read a copy and write to the magazine showing our support of his clear thinking. Sometimes I think that they believe that orthodox Catholics are illiterate nincompoops,,lets prove otherwise. Even if they don't print them someone reads them!!!If we can't convert them we can scare them.

[maryz]

we should buy or read a copy and write to the magazine showing our support of his clear thinking.

Actually, a great idea!

Can you buy America at a newstand? Never having had the inclination to look at it, I don't quite know how to go about purchasing a copy. I understand it's not a controlled substance, but . . .

[saradippity]

They used to have them at the back of the Jesuit run diocesan church.If you have a local Jesuit church try the back of the church,where they have literature.If they don't have it go to the rectory and see if the receptionist has one handy and if not ask her if she can find a priest who might let you borrow a couple editions for a few minutes.Or just call Boston College and ask where you can buy one.Al-though I have an aversion for paying for money for it,but sometimes,for the sake of the cause!?!I stoop.

[ninenot]

celibate homosexual should prove to be no problem for the priesthood

JPII spoke to the Brazilian Bishops on 9/4 and stated SPECIFICALLY that "those with deviant affections" should NOT BE ORDAINED.

Look it up on Zenit.org, go to archives, go to 9/5, you'll see it.

Not reported by Catholic News Service, NOT reported by UPI, NOT reported by AP--only Reuters and ABC News carried the story.