Women Believed to be members of Irish Travelers (Woman Taped Beating Child an "Irish Gypsy")

WNDU-TV, South Bend, Indiana ^ | September 20, 2002

[Shermy]

Some local authorities will not refer to Madelyn Gorman/Toogood and Margaret Daley as 'Travelers' but a local expert on Travelers says from the video he's seen, he believes the women are Irish Travelers. There are an estimated 12,000 to 20,000 Irish Travelers in the United States, mostly in South Carolina and Texas. This is where it is believed Gorman and her family is from.

Travelers live a nomadic lifestyle, moving from town to town in large groups to do seasonal work but they've also been labeled, by some, as scam artists. Most Irish Travelers in this country are descendents of 19th century Irish immigrants. They are also known as Irish gypsies or "tinkers".

Traveler expert

Elkhart resident Don Wright has been investigating the Travelers for 24 years. He's published books including one called 'Scam!'. Wright says many of these scams take place in our own backyard. Between April and October, there are between 15 to 20 families in the Michiana area running these scams. When Wright saw the Kohl's parking lot assault video, he knew this was more than just a case of child abuse.

After seeing the video, Traveler expert Don Wright says he called police and other Travelers and came to this conclusion. "I started making calls right away and found out, yes indeed, they were Irish Travelers."

Reasons behind the beating

Wright believes the beating happened for one of two reasons. "The little girl gave away the scam to an employee or the mom was so ticked off at not getting refunds she took it out on the little girl. As far as beating a kid like this, I've never heard of it."

Wright has heard of Travelers working in the Michiana area. He says certain things in the video lend him to believe these women are Travelers. "The fact that the license plate was from Texas - I knew who they were."

Why do they travel here?

Wright wrote about Travelers who travel from Fort Worth, Texas to Indiana in his 1996 book called 'Scam!' "A majority of the Travelers come to Elkhart a few times a year to pick up travel trailers they use for different scams." Wright says the trailer is a scam in and of itself. They live in it until they can sell it for an exorbitant price. Meanwhile, men of the Travelers do house scams and the women do shoplifting scams. Wright says it is common to take along their children. "This is on the job training for kids. They learn to shoplift at their mothers elbows."

Prosecutor Chris Toth said today that the reason Kohl's began to follow these two women and their daughters was because they had scammed the store before. Police in Fort Worth say in March they arrested Madelyn Gorman for an alleged theft at Kohls.

[Shermy]

Anyone see the lady talk? She had an accent I haven't heard before.

[Devil_Anse]

I don't know, must pay attention next time they show her. I listened for a minute or so as she spoke, and to me her accent sort of sounded like an accent they have in New Orleans, it's called a "yat" accent. Yats could be called "low-class," but it is also considered kind of cool to be one, b/c it generally means a person is a native New Orleanian. (But of course not all native New Orleanians are yats!)

[Devil_Anse]

Well, it appears that that is indeed the case--I know there is an enclave of these people in Murphy's Village, SC. Others have said they also have a group of them in Texas, and I think there's one other place somewhere in the U.S. where they go when they're not "travelling." In my opinion, "notorious thieves and vagrants" pretty well sums up everything I've ever heard about the lifestyle of Ms. Gorman-Toogood and her kin.

So I guess that song "Jolly Tinker" has another meaning that I never even thought of...

[afraidfortherepublic]

Anyone see the lady talk? She had an accent I haven't heard before.

I caught that too. Some of the words sounded almost Canadian, and some had a bit of an Irish intonation. She definitely DID NOT have a Texan or South Carolinian accent. And she didn't sound Indianan either.

[afraidfortherepublic]

BTW, she surely spoke some of the worst English I have ever heard. I doubt that she spent much time in school when she was growing up.

[bvw]

Do they use and slaughter chickens in rituals at all?

[vikingcelt]

Travelers (in Ireland anyway) don't spend much time in school. Our guide when I went on a hiking trip there two years ago was from Ennis and she said that she had travelers as friends growing up but then they always got pregnant young, stopped going to school, etc., etc. and she lost contact with them. Again, just like every single Irish person I asked, she didn't seem to like them much. They certainly made the Puck Fair last August in Killorglin a lot more interesting though.

[RnMomof7]

I saw a "special" on these Irish travelers some years ago..it is very interesting. Most "winter" in their hometowns (the special showed thier town in SC)..they live in very large expensive homes , they drive very expensive cars...all the fruit of being scam artists .

They are the ones that take $1000 from a little old lady to "fix " her leaky roof..throw a bit of tar on it and then disappear. They need your money in advance to buy paint and then they are gone with your money

There are some cultural distinctives to (did ya catch her slight broge? )They are very inbreed and insular people.

They sexualize the girls VERY early and inside the community they have the girsl of 7 or 8 made up and dressed like hookers

I believe marriages are arranged and they marry VERY young

My first thought on this was that the mother was very angry that her scam did not work..that the little girl may have triggered the refusal of the scam..and the beating was born out of that frustration..

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I figure that the family can't be very pleased with her right now. Not only did she blow the scam return thing, she made them look bad in a very public, identifiable way.

If law enforcement sees them only as petty scam artists, then they may not be as vigorous in tracking down their crimes. If, however, they're seen as dangerous in some way, the level of heat increases.

[bvw]

Do hope folks realize just how much power they are giving to the media in cases like this. It really would take a judge and jury of extra-ordinary virtue to hear the case on fair impartial and full presentations and not be swayed by the "angry mob" that streches from Hawaii to Maine, that is directed almost completly by the media.

What havoc is unleashed to sell scented anti-static dryer cloths, viagra and vacation get-aways to a people willing to be marketed to, once the marketeers learn the potent draw of human sacrifices to the mob's cries.

[Devil_Anse]

I think I see what you are saying about the media. But I also think that the rules that apply to you and me really, really don't apply to the Irish Travellers. These folks are way, way ahead of the legal system.

Don't forget, it was Madelyne's own actions that led to that videocam being trained on her in the first place. Had she not been trying to turn in clothes which the store clearly thought were not from the store, she'd never have aroused any notice. I've tried to return things to stores, and occasionally have forgotten where I actually bought the item, and have been turned away when they checked. I have never raised a fuss as long as I was sure they had checked, and I would just walk out with the merchandise, which I realized I was stuck with unless/until I remembered where I bought it, and/or came up with the receipt.

Most stores nowadays are happy to take back undamaged merchandise; some will trust you w/o the receipt and will give you store credit. They know they're not being cheated, b/c they have the undamaged merchandise right there in their hands. This woman was reportedly insisting on a cash refund--store credit wouldn't satisfy her--but she couldn't show that she'd bought the stuff at that store.

Of course I wasn't there, but I completely believe that Ms. Gorman-Toogood was engaging in a scam of some sort. I've read and heard of the Irish Travellers, as well as seeing some of their group in criminal court, and they do in fact make a living out of cheating people. They would count on the fairness of the average decent American to gain undeserved sympathy--which they would then transform into monetary gain as best they could.

This lady will not spend any appreciable time in jail (I am betting that she never spends one day in jail), and will not be separated from physical custody of her daughter for long. She will get her hands on the little girl, and they will both be gone to where nobody can find them. Also, I'm not sure I believe she was beating that little girl in any extreme way. The video didn't look right to me.

I looked at the still of the little girl, I looked at the pictures of Madelyne and her sister. They all had that same impassive look that I've seen on the faces of people of this group, the times I've encountered them in the flesh. They are of a different world. They are a fascinating people, but they are not to be trusted by any outsider under any circumstances.

[Devil_Anse]

It sounds like you saw the same special I saw. Fascinating, wasn't it?

I think you have Madelyne and her group pegged exactly right.

I believe that these people are not the slightest bit perturbed by, or interested in, what any of the rest of us think of them. They are in it for the money, and that's all.

[bvw]

DICK DARBY THE COBBLER

Oh me name is Dick Darby, I'm a cobbler
I served me time at the old camp
Some call me an old agitator
But now I'm resolved to repent

With me intwing of an ingthing of an iday
With me intwing of an ingthing of an iday
With me roo boo boo roo boo boo randy
And me lab stone keeps beating away

Now my father was hung for sheep stealing
Me mother was burned for a witch
My sister's a dandy housekeeper
And I'm a mechanical switch

Ah it's forty long years I have traveled
All by the contents of me pack
Me hammers, me awls, and me pinches
I carry them all on me back

Oh my wife she is humpy, she's lumpy
My wife, she's the devil, she's black
And no matter what I may do with her
Her tongue it goes clickety clack

It was early one fine summer's morning
A little before it twas day
I dipped her three times in the river
And carelessly bad her "Good day"

[Devil_Anse]

I love it!! More songs!!

And remember, if we don't buy buy buy lots of anti-static dryer cloths, Viagra, and swell vacation getaways, the terrorists will have won!

[bvw]

That old irish folk song speaks to the kind of "careless" disconnect you say you see in the Mrs, Mommy here, and her homeys. I don't disagree at all that a different tact and tactics are needed in dealing with the Travelers.

[bvw]

Those three things I listed and you repeated all have something in common, to my way of looking -- which is why I picked them.

[A. Pole]

I looked at the still of the little girl, I looked at the pictures of Madelyne and her sister. They all had that same impassive look that I've seen on the faces of people of this group, the times I've encountered them in the flesh. They are of a different world. They are a fascinating people, but they are not to be trusted by any outsider under any circumstances.

See the slideshow of Mrs. TooGood.

[RnMomof7]

Having a 1st generation Irish grandma that worked her fingers to the bone to move into the middle class out of the Irish Ghetto...I am offened by the two extremes...the Kennedys that made ton of money illegally during prohibition..and these Irish scam artists..

[Devil_Anse]

Well, the Kennedys are always offensive, IMO. My great-grandparents, one branch, were from County Kerry. Never met them, but their daughter, my grandmother, was a fine woman, and of course such people have nothing to do with this group from Murphy's Village.

[Devil_Anse]

Something in common...hmmm, well I can see the Viagra and the vacation...but...dryer sheets? Let's see, dryer sheets, static, scent, over-fastidious people who can't be bothered to untangle clothes stuck together by static...BTW, did you know used dryer sheets are excellent for dusting electronic components...scratching my head...is this something from a Monty Python routine?