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Police call in reinforcements in U.S. sniper hunt
Reuters | 10/08/02 | JoAnne Allen

Posted on 10/08/2002 12:56:54 AM PDT by kattracks

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - With few clues and little progress in the hunt for the sniper who has killed six people and wounded two others in the Washington region, local authorities called in more federal agents and urged parents to look out for their children when schools open on Tuesday.

The random shootings have rattled people living in and around the U.S. capital, where many residents are still unnerved by last year's September 11 strike on the Pentagon and letters sent afterward containing anthrax spores.

The latest victim, a 13-year-old student, was shot once in the upper body and critically wounded on Monday outside his school in Bowie, Maryland. Police said ballistics and other evidence linked the assault to the seven other attacks across the region last week.

The teenager from Prince George's County remained in critical condition after surgery at the Children's National Medical Center in Washington.

Five people, aged 25 to 55, were killed in Maryland's Montgomery County on Wednesday and early Thursday. A 72-year-old man was shot to death in Washington on Thursday and on Friday, a 43-year-old woman was shot and wounded in Fredericksburg, Virginia, 130 km south of the Maryland and Washington shootings.

Flanked by high-level local, state and federal law enforcement officials, Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose announced late Monday that he had written to U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft seeking additional assistance under a federal law pertaining to serial killings.

"Because of the magnitude of the investigation and the likelihood that we're going to need additional resources, I am writing to the attorney general to initiate a formal request for assistance," Moose said.

Federal law enforcement agencies had been assisting in the case since last Thursday, the day after the first murder. An official at the FBI office in Baltimore, Special Agent Kevin Lewis, said Moose's request would give the premier federal law enforcement agency a bigger role in the manhunt.

Though police have had little to go in the search for a sniper described by police as a skilled marksman who needed only one shot to murder his victims, authorities insist they are not dismayed by the lack of progress.

"We are not frustrated. We are not disappointed. We are not discouraged," Montgomery County Executive Douglas Duncan told reporters. "We are angry and outraged that someone would do this to our loved ones and our neighbours.

He added: "We're asking parents to walk their kids to schools. We're asking parents to serve as safety patrols." he said. "We need everyone to do their part to bring this killer to justice."



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
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1 posted on 10/08/2002 12:56:54 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks

Meet the reenforcements. <|:)~

2 posted on 10/08/2002 1:06:45 AM PDT by martin_fierro
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To: kattracks
"Though police have had little to go in the search for a sniper described by police as a skilled marksman who needed only one shot to murder his victims, authorities insist they are not dismayed by the lack of progress."

Tell that to his next victim.

3 posted on 10/08/2002 1:08:27 AM PDT by OfByForThePeople
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To: kattracks
How can this be? We have been told the police are supposed to protect us.

The sniper has begun shooting students at school. Schools have been declared free-fire zones to snipers by the federal government. Nobody there can shoot back because the government has made sure nobody in or near a school can LEGALLY carry a firearm. This is the predictable outcome from the disarming of law-abiding citizens. I guess we'll have to call out the National Guard to defend every school in America.

4 posted on 10/08/2002 2:17:24 AM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: kattracks; Squantos; Travis McGee; Lion Den Dan; harpseal; Jeff Head; Fred Mertz; Wally Cleaver; ...
Notice how the LEO continue to think "in the box" on this? If it is a terror related crime they need to realize the guy pulling the trigger is not thinking like the normal criminal. Profiling according to US standards and all the other tricks of the trade may prove to be worthless. They need to be asking the Israeli, Greek or some other police agency who has delt with terrorists for years for advice on this one.
5 posted on 10/08/2002 2:31:23 AM PDT by SLB
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To: kattracks
I guess we are a great country partly because we don't do "cruel and unusual" punishment. But I dream we could go Colonial on these perps if they ever get caught. How about 8 hours in the stocks every day for 2 weeks? And while they're in the stocks, somebody could walk up to them every day and ask them if they understand WHY they are in their predicament? And if they understand WHY they will be unceremoniously hung at the end of those 2 weeks? Yeah, I know, we don't do stuff like that any more. Never mind.
6 posted on 10/08/2002 2:45:17 AM PDT by FlyVet
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To: FlyVet
unceremoniously hung

Correction, should have said "hanged".

7 posted on 10/08/2002 2:49:00 AM PDT by FlyVet
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To: kattracks
"We're asking parents to walk their kids to schools. We're asking parents to serve as safety patrols."

That won't do any good against a sniper.
Keeping them out of sight is the only thing that can protect them.

8 posted on 10/08/2002 3:02:41 AM PDT by RightWinger
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To: SLB
It could be for public consumption. But I have been thinking the same as you on this. Trained sniper, military op.
9 posted on 10/08/2002 4:01:07 AM PDT by M. T. Cicero II
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To: SLB
There is a resistance to believing this is a terrorist incident. That resistance comes from the conviction that "Terrorists will claim credit for their acts." Did they sleep through the 9/11/01 attacks. There was no claim of credit there. There was no claiam of credit in the Kobar Towers bombing, USS Cole bombing etc. etc.

My best guess at this point is the police departments are absolutely clueless about who is behind these attacks. The lone nut case would most likely have been narrowed down some by now. They need to completely investigate that angle along with all the usual procedures

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

10 posted on 10/08/2002 4:15:29 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
Nobody there can shoot back because the government has made sure nobody in or near a school can LEGALLY carry a firearm. This is the predictable outcome from the disarming of law-abiding citizens.

While I agree with the need for an armed citizenry as the first line of defense against those who would deprive us of liberty, a sniper presents a unique challenge under any circumstances. Perhaps someone more versed in tactics than me can suggest what type of response a few folks armed with handguns can mount following a sniper attack. I can't think of anything except to be prepared to stop and detain someone looking suspicious in the general area from which one or more shots was heard. (For example, perhaps, someone climbing down a fire escape of a tall building with a sniper rifle strapped across his back?)

11 posted on 10/08/2002 5:34:31 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: FlyVet
Hanged, hung, strung up - it all works for me!
12 posted on 10/08/2002 5:36:45 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: harpseal
These shootings are in accord with information previously known about al qaeda terror operations. I seem to remember reading about this approach earlier. Why is this not being said in public?
13 posted on 10/08/2002 5:40:41 AM PDT by astounded
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To: harpseal
Several recent muslim attacks have appeared to be lone-nut cases, at least on the surface (the shooting at LAX, the stabbing of the Paris mayor). A lot of lone nuts give themselves away by blabbing after one too many drinks. But if any blabbing is done within a close knit community with an agenda, it may be a while before he mouths off to the wrong person. That's why it wouldn't surprise me if this is someone acting alone but with Allah's "blessing."
14 posted on 10/08/2002 5:50:44 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: astounded
These shootings are in accord with information previously known about al qaeda terror operations. I seem to remember reading about this approach earlier. Why is this not being said in public?

Crowd Control. In short the media and government do not wish to have a public hysteria against practitioners of the "Religion of peace."

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

15 posted on 10/08/2002 5:52:48 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: Larry Lucido
Terry Reid the "shoe bomber" was at first considered a "lone nutcase." Lattter evidence proved otherwise. The LAX shooter is allegedly a "lone nutjob," but there are some very good questions about this perp being involved with a terrorist organization. Therefor any possible link needs to be checked out in detail.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - yorktown
16 posted on 10/08/2002 6:18:33 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: astounded
"Why is this not being said in public?"

Because the LEO's are afraid of the backlash if they tell the American public that Muslims are doing this.

17 posted on 10/08/2002 6:27:59 AM PDT by wcbtinman
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To: Larry Lucido
Perhaps someone more versed in tactics than me can suggest what type of response a few folks armed with handguns can mount following a sniper attack.

How about this: An armed citizen walks around the corner and sees a man holding a rifle a 30 yards away. The man fires, and down range it can be seen he hit an unarmed person. Armed citizen pulls out handgun and shoots terrorist 5 times.

The only way this will stop is for a armed good guy to be there when it happens, see it happen, and be close enough to return fire. The odds of this are much greater the more armed good guys are out there. The police are not enough.

18 posted on 10/08/2002 6:42:02 AM PDT by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: harpseal
That's why I didn't mention Reid. He may have been a nut but was certainly not acting alone, or on a whim. If/when this guy is discovered to be a moslem, unfettered wrath would justifiably be directed at all those in his community that knew about or encouraged these acts.
19 posted on 10/08/2002 6:53:41 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: On the Road to Serfdom
Armed citizen pulls out handgun and shoots terrorist 5 times.

Agreed. More guns, less nutcases.

20 posted on 10/08/2002 6:54:19 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: M. T. Cicero II
You guys. IMO for the most part the art of shooting has beeen lost- even by many of those who own guns. A 300 yard deer kill in the West is a chip shot. We do it ALL of the time. I kill coyotes at over 300 yards with a 5.56mm (.223) using an AR on a weekly basis. Coyotes are way smaller than people -yes even Middle School kids. Nothing beats determination and some simple planning - along with some balls - crazy or not! What was that Michael Douglas movie where he palyed a guy that just lost it? This will probably turn out to be the case here.
21 posted on 10/08/2002 7:18:55 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: SLB
Very good! Youre right on the money with your assessment. The police are still thinking inside the box while the terrorist has been operating outside of it. As it stands theyll catch him only if they get lucky. When they start thinking like a terrorist (admitting its a terrorist op is the first step) then theyll be in a better place to catch him....if they don't wait too long that is.
22 posted on 10/08/2002 8:04:27 AM PDT by 556x45
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
My guess is that this is a continuation of what began on 9-11. My only questions are what took the bastards so long and where will they strike again?

If these shooters were cautious and set their vehicle up properly, there'd be no need to flee quickly. They could hang around for some time until just before the cops showed up then slowly drive off.

And what BETTER place to wage a campaign of offing innocent victims than Montgomery County, MD and DC (now GUN FREE schools!) where only the cops -- and the bad guys -- are SUPPOSED to have guns.

The shooting in VA MAY have been a bad choice as I believe VA does have a CCW law on the books.

These morons MAY have some surprises if they try this crap down south.

23 posted on 10/08/2002 8:48:45 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: mad_as_he$$
It's not the shot in itself. It's knowing where and when to shoot and how to escape.
24 posted on 10/08/2002 9:14:56 AM PDT by M. T. Cicero II
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To: harpseal
Great points about no credit taken.
25 posted on 10/08/2002 9:52:56 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: kattracks
We're asking parents to serve as safety patrols." he said.

Safety patrols?

26 posted on 10/08/2002 9:57:42 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Travis McGee
I think terrorism is just as likely as the nutjob scenario....maybe even more so.
27 posted on 10/08/2002 10:18:07 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy; harpseal; Squantos; SLB
Look for intentional misdirection. In my novel, the actual shooter leaves a "right wing militia kook" patsy to take the blame for an assault rifle massacre, along with "Jihad" leaflets.

His intention is to weave a convincing theory that the "right wing militia" was trying to blame the massacre on Muslims to stir up violence against them. This false theory is accepted by ABCNNBCBS and most American sheeple.

***********************************

In the Maryland case, where clues are so few, it would be simple to leave false clues to blame right wingers, Muslims, or any other group the actual shooter wanted to blame. In my novel, someone snipes a very pro gun control Senator and left false clues at his sniper's lair: cigarette butts, candy wrappers and soda cans he picked up from where DC police took a break. Their fingerprints and DNA causes quite a stir!

28 posted on 10/08/2002 10:25:04 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
Thank you. I guess some people have decided to aquit Al Qaeda and Iraq unless and until it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt they are not even open to a possibility. I for one believe that every option should be explored until it is found who did it and they are proven guilty in a court of law.

Now I do not claim to know who did either the snipings or the anthrax. I do know it is reasonable to supect Al Qaeda in bith instances. Al Qaeda with Iraq in the anthrax case.

Now as to our DC area sniper/assassin I would suggest that this morning's layoff does indicate that the shooter(?s?) is/are laying low to evaluate the police response before continuing the shootings. In short our shooter is either planning very well or so screwed up he is just plain keeping the PD at bay because he is so screwed up. My gut instinct says it could well be an Islao-facist but I can not rule out any theory and my problem is with people who are convinced they have the truth.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - yorktown

29 posted on 10/08/2002 10:52:30 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: M. T. Cicero II
Hench the planing and positioning. However, I do believe that many things can be done in plain sight these days. We had a guy in Reno walked into a Casino about 4 years ago with a gun in his hand that nobody saw. He then capped his neighbor 4 times and almost got away. The funny part was that he had a walker! No joke!
30 posted on 10/08/2002 10:57:10 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Travis McGee
It could be anyone. I would bet serious money that any of us on this thread could easily make these shots with an off the rack .223 and cheap optics from rest out a vehicle window. There does seem to be at least some hint that there may be a driver given the way the shooter's vehicle disappears so quickly but that is conjecture. The pattern and the lack of personal touch gives me the gut feeling that it's not just a psycho killing for a rush or whatever. It seems to me to be fairly planned even if random. Psychos historically like a more personal involvement usually...Whitman was an exception but he killed his family up close before he left for the tower.

The media would absolutely love for it to be a McVeigh clone but I see no ZOG indications here ..do you? Except that it's in the DC environs....which could also lean towards Islamakazis just as easily as the "angry white boy" scenario.

The Islamists have been trained to some degree and this is not outside their MO in my view. It's random terror. The victims reflect America's polyglot.

Our enemies will strike however they can to hurt us. One thing though is that the Islamists are supposed to be willing to die. If so, one would expect them to either blow themselves up in a crowded environment or to go for a suicide spray shooting like Nidal did in Vienna and Rome nearly 2 decades ago.

It's hard to say....whoever it is...is doing this to scare folks....I just don't feel that it's a psycho killer....it's too detatched.

There is a report online here of a description of 2 latin or ME men. I'm not sure where that comes from. If true, that further narrows this from the psycho killer scenario. Psychos do pair up sometime but usually it involves abduction and mutilation instead of this.
31 posted on 10/08/2002 11:15:30 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy
I totally agree about the level of difficulty on these shots being not that high. I further, agree on the lack of personal touch. Regarding the driver, second shooter, last Thursday when they were first looking for a Isuzu box truck they mentioned two men in it. Now they are looking for two "Hispanics" (or MiddleEasterners).

I have yet to see any indications that it would be an arayan nations type anti-government shooter. That of course does not mean it couldn't turn out that way but unless or until someone has some facts that point to that direction I will take the fact that the broad cross section of the victims is a contra-indication of that.

Likewise I see no evidence to indicate Black sepratist involvement. The two primary directions to be looking at are the nut job and Islamo-facist secnario. I note that there are a whole lot more instances where the Islamic terrorists have done their mischief and tried to get outa dodge than the straight suicide scenarios. Further, it might be a whole lot easier recruiting job if suicide is not a requirement only an option.

The use of Whitman as an exception is probably not relevant because when he did his random killing he was also committing to capture or death. This killer has yet to do that.

Stay well - stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown

32 posted on 10/08/2002 11:47:42 AM PDT by harpseal
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To: harpseal; wardaddy
We can't rule anything out at this point, it could be a pair of Paraguayan cross dressing thrill killers.

BUT, we are in a war, and until it is ruled out, we must treat it as enemy action. What's the old saying, "one shot is an accident, two is a coincidence, three is enemy action?"

33 posted on 10/08/2002 12:01:58 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
We can't rule anything out at this point, it could be a pair of Paraguayan cross dressing thrill killers.

How can we fight the threat of Paraguayan cross dressing thrill killers? Can we ban Spanish-language show tunes? (grin)

34 posted on 10/08/2002 12:22:54 PM PDT by Chemist_Geek
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To: harpseal
That is a good distinction between Whitman who knew he would be caught or killed from a stationary shooting spot and these "stealth" killers.

This thread brought to my mind another lone sniper killer in New Orleans over 30 years ago. He shot from the Howard Johnson's rooftop on Canal or Claibourne and like Whitman went in to his endeavor knowing he would either die or be captured.
35 posted on 10/08/2002 1:27:25 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Travis McGee
I'll bump that.
36 posted on 10/08/2002 1:28:12 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Dick Bachert
I would really like to see the sniper(s) die in a hail of returned fire, delivered by citizens armed and ready. Then, we wouldn't have a trial with somebody testifying as to the rotten childhood of the poor, misunderstood defendant. Live by the sword - die by the sword.
37 posted on 10/08/2002 4:03:23 PM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: mad_as_he$$
Gotta love that! Makes sense, though... Who would think that an old guy with a walker was a potential killer?


Excuse me for going off like this...I thought that during the cold war, the best stealth air craft was the Cessna 172. After all, it had the proven ability to defeat the entire Soviet air defense system. And they are cheap as compared with the F117. Same thing as an old guy with a walker.
38 posted on 10/09/2002 5:30:35 AM PDT by M. T. Cicero II
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To: M. T. Cicero II
Yea it was the news for along time...
39 posted on 10/09/2002 7:07:59 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Travis McGee
An even more chilling scenario exists that no one has mentioned:

The shooter is "using" the current terrorism scenario in order to win a bet - the bet is that he can commit 12 perfect crimes and get away with it. In this scenario, the shooter (remote-control artist, really) caps a dozen people and then disposes of all his gear out in international waters...then just lies low and collects his bet. His bet is with someone else he knows who has already done the same thing, just not with the publicity this case has generated.

In other words, there is no hate. No terrorism-for-cause, no "thrill" killing. Just someone out to prove that it IS possible to do this and get away with it sans a mob organization as shield.

I'm guessing we're near the end of the string. The shooter will simply stop his activities before LE gets enough of a clue to even get close. I'm also guessing the shooter knows the profiling scheme and has laid a false trail for the profilers.

Michael

40 posted on 10/09/2002 7:31:38 AM PDT by Wright is right!
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To: Wright is right!
I very seriously doubt it is a bet with a second person, but I agree that he may be toying with the profilers and laying false clues.
41 posted on 10/09/2002 11:21:30 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
The sniper has begun shooting students at school. Schools have been declared free-fire zones to snipers by the federal government. Nobody there can shoot back because the government has made sure nobody in or near a school can LEGALLY carry a firearm.

Schools were early targets of terrorists in Israel. There was a solution.

PROVEN SOLUTIONS TO ENDING SCHOOL SHOOTINGS

42 posted on 10/09/2002 11:32:44 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: Travis McGee
"...but I agree that he may be toying with the profilers and laying false clues."

Anyone who's THIS good a shot knows how LE approaches the matter of tracking him down. If he's had any special-ops, then he knows even more how to throw LE off track. I really wouldn't be surprised to see the shootings stop at some number and never resume - and the guy never caught. It would not surprise me in the least.

If that does, in fact, happen - then the perp(s) will be shown to have not acted out of hate, race, or passion - but rather a professional, methodical manner of achieving a goal that is not within our sight.

Michael

43 posted on 10/09/2002 11:56:11 AM PDT by Wright is right!
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To: SJackson
Good link and his solution is obviously founded in practical experience.
44 posted on 10/09/2002 2:49:03 PM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: FlyVet
If that is the most "cruel and unusual" punishment you can think of you lack imagination, sir!
45 posted on 10/09/2002 4:37:18 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: harpseal
There was no claim of credit there. There was no claim of credit in the Kobar Towers bombing, USS Cole bombing etc. etc.

This signals a big shift in goals. They used to just want to draw political debate to their cause. Usually, this was to influence our foreign policy, release prisoners, ect. Now, it's different, they are waging a war to destroy us or our influence outside our boarders. It is a fight for dominance, or even existence.

I'm probably preaching to the choir, but the point needs to be made.

46 posted on 10/09/2002 4:47:11 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: RipSawyer
If that is the most "cruel and unusual" punishment you can think of you lack imagination, sir!

Oh trust me, I can think of a lot worse. I just think stocks and the gallows are fairly reasonable. I don't think the US should sink to the lowest common denominator, like flaying, crucifixion, caning, being thrown in a pit and shot slowly to death with a BB gun, etc, etc. I could think of dozens of ways not very civilized. Doesn't mean we should do it.

47 posted on 10/09/2002 4:52:45 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: FlyVet
I agree. No pain, well, a ham supository of course..but then let them "Ride the Lightning"


48 posted on 10/09/2002 5:01:30 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: FlyVet
I figured you could come up with something stronger. I don't really want to see us go back to drawing and quartering but I confess that sometimes I do fantasize about what would be appropriate for some people and the things I can visualize would be slow and agonizing for certain. These thoughts usually overtake me when reading a story about some cruel murder of a child. I don't think there is anything really cruel enough to do to someone who could kidnap and murder a child.
49 posted on 10/09/2002 5:14:38 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: RipSawyer
Same here. Sometimes I don't think falling asleep on a gurney fits the cruelty of the crime. But then again, being a person with Christian beliefs, I know they'll get theirs when they pass to the next world. What awaits them will be worse than what any human could dish out to them.
50 posted on 10/09/2002 5:22:34 PM PDT by FlyVet
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