Posted on 10/09/2002 1:57:31 AM PDT by kattracks
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- Democrats long used to getting heavy support from New Jersey's black voters are shutting blacks out from top political decisions and ignoring their concerns, activists charged.
Black church and community leaders said Democrats should not expect blacks to vote lockstep with party leaders, especially after the shake-up in the Senate race.
They said community leaders felt shut out of the party decision to replace Sen. Robert Torricelli, who resigned as a candidate after months of talk about his personal ethics.
Leaders also said they were troubled by McGreevey's demand that Amiri Baraka, who is black, resign as state poet laureate after some claimed a Sept. 11 memorial poem was offensive and anti-Semetic.
McGreevey and legislators have promised swift action on bills that would allow the governor to fire Baraka and cut him from his two-year, $10,000 appointment.
Sen. Ronald L. Rice, D-Essex, was one of several legislators who said he was disappointed that more black party leaders were not consulted about the legislation, or about the selection of a new U.S. Senate candidate last week.
"We don't want to be a bunch of placeholders," Rice said. "I'm a good Democrat but I also believe I've earned the right to disagree."
The Rev. Reginald Jackson, executive director of the Black Ministers Council, said party leaders want blacks to vote, but offer them no reasons to support them after the election ends.
"It's insulting, it's demeaning and believe it or not younger African Americans are not toeing that line," he said. "And I think those who are going to expect us to be there in the future are in for a rude awakening."
Gov. James E. McGreevey, a Democrat, refused to discuss issues involving the senate selection process and concerns raised by black voters on Tuesday.
Walter Fields, a Democratic political consultant, said blacks are being shut out because Democrats have determined they risk losing no political support in the black community if they exclude blacks from decisions.
Blacks now have no leverage as a voting group because they consistently support Democrats and give no sign of changing, Fields said.
That allows mostly white power brokers to assume support from black voters without offering anything, or helping blacks into positions where they can become statewide candidates, he said.
"You not only don't have a guy on the short list, you're not even in the room when the decision is going to be made," Fields said. "Then you're told to vote for this person just because you're a Democrat."
Dissent between black voters and Democrats in New Jersey mirrors similar disputes in other states that have been going on for decades, political scientists and analysts said.
"Is one of those underlying issues that often affect race relations in general," said David Bositis, a senior analyst at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington. "There are people and issues and decisions that involve African Americans and their leaders and there's often a white political leadership that doesn't take into consideration and consult with and listen to African Americans."
Roger Wilkins, a professor at George Mason University, said blacks who weren't consulted have a major complaint if the party is depending on black voters to save the Senate seat.
But black voters must realize what party leaders faced trying to replace Torricelli, who quit with five weeks to go, Wilkins said.
"They didn't want it to be ragged, they wanted to get Torricelli behind them and they wanted a name and a face that was credible," he said.
Not all black leaders are worried.
"I think it's at least a non-issue. It's an issue to divide the Democratic party and to bring some doubt among our black leadership," said the Rev. Stanley Justice, another member of the Black Ministers Council.
Copyright 2002 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Guess the Libs could not find a qualified Black candidate in all of NJ to run for the Senate. Maybe next time......maybe next time.
Oh, by the way, keep that 95% voting for Libs record going. Would not want to slip to maybe 94% and cause the Libs to think that blacks were not voting in lockstep with party leaders.
Note that in the Dim party, one has to earn the right to disagree. Very telling...JFK
Blacks now have no leverage as a voting group because they consistently support Democrats and give no sign of changing, Fields said.
Is anyone paying attention here? Yes, Mr. Fields, the pressure cooker is about to explode! Either get out of the way, or get knocked the hell out.
Ten to twenty percent. That's all I seek. Ten to twenty percent. I have no desire to try to convince all American blacks at one time. It's unnecessary. Ten to twenty percent of the black vote for the Pubs and the RATS can kiss power goodbye forever.
If we can convince this ten to twenty percent, more will follow later. In order for the RATS to become competitive again (and here's the most beautiful part), they will have to move to the right.
Ahh... I love the smell of vaporizing RATS in the morning!
We're not asking for your tears, you see? Conservative blacks such as mhking and myself are seeking 10-20% more of the American black vote into the conservative column. When this occurs, the RATS are doomed.
Now, the prospect of this should make conservatives everywhere salivate. So, I would hope that you would lend your support to our efforts. If not, no biggie, just don't depress the move. In other words (and by all means no offense), you can help by leading, following, or simply getting out of the way. That's all we ask.
Did we read the same article? I see no evidence in this column to support your claim.
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They want more power and control over the party or they're hinting at picking up their marbles and going home. Isn't that quite clear?
Duhhh!
90% of you vote for Democraps, regardless of how they treat you.
They can count on your votes and have to do nothing in return, why would they give you anything?
No, it's not.
Could it maybe, just maybe, be the fact that blacks are waking up to the fact that they are being used and are now saying it publicly?
It's amazing how we look at the same two sentences and come out with two completely different interpretations.
You're right, they're not trying direct blackmail, as it were. They are trying to make their influence felt within the Party. Only now, when it is too late, do black Democrats realize that nobody at the top of the New Jersey Democratic Party cares what they think.
Be Seeing You,
Chris
You're right, they're not trying direct blackmail, as it were. They are trying to make their influence felt within the Party. Only now, when it is too late, do black Democrats realize that nobody at the top of the New Jersey Democratic Party cares what they think.
When you conciously tie your fortunes to that of one party, this is what happens.
Be Seeing You,
Chris
Lately, I've been left with stunned looks on my face as I've read certain threads about voting for conservatives from non-white segments of society. It's been noted, and correctly so, that younger Jews trend towards the conservatives. Asians have gotten nods on this, and believe it or not, some Hispanics are given credence as well.
What's missing here? You decide.
But I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Correct. Now it stands to reason that the Pubs would take advantage of this, right? The piously principled would never admit it, but, all is fair in war and politics. When your enemy has an exposed weakness, you take advantage. But it doesn't look like it will be.
All I can now ask is, "Why not?" I'm talking about regular conservatives here. Fringe Right? Fuhgedaboudit. But why won't the GOP move on this?
Going home where?
All this situation is, is the chickens coming home to roost. I've been saying for a long time, that soon, many black folks are going to begin to realize that their presence and vote in the Democratic party is being taken for granted. As that happens; as black folk all over the nation begin to realize they are being taken for a ride, significant numbers of them will have their eyes opened by a message that's different than the lock-step, lemming-like group think of the "black leadership" - our message.
By significant numbers, I mean moving up from 10% to 15% or 20% of the black electorate. Is that large in your eyesight? Doesn't sound like it would be, but that type of change is huge! It will happen.
Now, are you ready to welcome them; to answer their questions as they come in the door without sneering and without cynicism? Are you ready to welcome them to the conservative fold with open arms?
And where do you find your support for that statement in this article?
If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)
Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.
FR is our public radio/tv. Support FR! The Fall Telethon is underway!
Blacks now have no leverage as a voting group because they consistently support Democrats and give no sign of changing, Fields said.
Is anyone paying attention here?
Ten to twenty percent. That's all I seek. Ten to twenty percent. I have no desire to try to convince all American blacks at one time. It's unnecessary. Ten to twenty percent of the black vote for the Pubs and the RATS can kiss power goodbye forever.I was struck by the same two sentences. This is an object lesson in how to disaffect a constituency and provide an opening for the other Party.
The day is coming, my friend, when the RNC doesn't see this as an opportunity to look in the wrong end of a gift horse.
Put it another way:
If we can get the Black vote to Reagan numbers, the Dems are toast.
Talk about this subject and it will garner few posts. Now, let a thread be started about something silly a black person says or does and you better get out of the way! Those threads always get 100+ posts. This one won't.
Watch.
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They're being used, but they are using right back ten fold. They have a government subsidized 70% illegitimacy rate free from criticism and are generally treated like gods. You'd better hire them, admit them to schools, and address them as Sir whether they are competent or not courtesy of laws passed by Democrats. It's a good deal. They want more.
Can't get the benefit of the doubt with you. No, siree! One way and that's that.
Can't say I'm shocked.
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I casted a write-in vote for Keyes in the last presidential election.
I don't think you will get it because I don't think 20% of the black vote pulls the lever. I voted in a black district in Winston Salem and it was a ghost town. But they pulled 90+% at the end of the night.
Correct. Now it stands to reason that the Pubs would take advantage of this, right? The piously principled would never admit it, but, all is fair in war and politics. When your enemy has an exposed weakness, you take advantage. But it doesn't look like it will be.All I can now ask is, "Why not?" I'm talking about regular conservatives here. Fringe Right? Fuhgedaboudit. But why won't the GOP move on this?
There is a simple reason. Most white, conservative to moderate Republicans don't believe that black voters will give them half a chance.
Republicans have ample reason to believe this. George W. Bush was a reasonably moderate, center-right Republican. He went to the NAACP Convention. He appealed to the black voters to give him half a chance. He ran on education and tax relief, two issues that are important in the black community. His reward was a commercial that implicated him in the dragging death of a black citizen of his state and eight percent of the black vote.
The recent debate held in Massachussetts between KKT and the Unknown Republican is another case in point. All KKT had to do was throw in a little Black Preacher and she had her audience going. The Republican could hardly get a word in edgewise.
It is extremely hard for Republicans to get a hearing in the black community these days. I remember listening to a black co-worker refer to Colin Powell as a "traitor" during the 2000 campaign. It gets to the point where Republicans have to decide if they want to "reach out" or if it's all just a terrible waste of time and gosh, at least those Hispanics seem receptive.
The smart thing Bush has done is to bypass the Gatekeepers (such as Bond, Mfume, and Jackson) and to go directly at the black church. This will pay small dividends in 2004, as Bush tends to wear well on people of all kinds. It could pay stronger dividends down the line, however.
Be Seeing You,
Chris
Maybe so.
Some, however, have left the Dims and are becoming Republicans. Here in the 2nd District of Mississippi, our (Republican) candidate is a black man. This past weekend, I spent the day at the fall flea market in Vicksburg campaigning for him. You should see the faces of the black populace when they figure out a white guy is trying to get a black guy elected as a Republican.
Any other Freepers in the 2nd District? Vote for Clinton Le Suer on Nov. 5. (In fairness, the Democrat candidate is Bennie Thompson.)
Tell ya what. I'd rather talk like I have one of those rather than be one.
You're right. You couldn't have the slightest idea what I'm saying because you're nothing more than a dried up old prune of an excuse for a man. Mama always said respect my elders, but sorry, mom, this one doesn't rise to that level.
Hmmmmm. isn't broward and miami florida mostly black?
Not a chance. South Florida is mostly Hispanic and Anglo.
Be Seeing You,
Chris
That's the problem. Coming up, I always saw every 2 to 4 years Dims campaigning in the 'hood. I mean without fail. How many Pubs came to East Cleveland? ZERO. The squishy George Voinovich (now the Pub Senator from Ohio) was the mayor for nearly all my childhood, yet he never showed up either.
You still have to make and take your case to the people. If you don't show, it is assumed that you don't care. And this makes the RATS job so much easier. TV and radio doesn't cut it. They have to be there. That goes from coast-to-coast, inner-city, rural areas, and/or suburbs.
I swear, I've been thinking on these lines for about two months now. All I will say for the moment about this is that you are on to more than you realize. You truly are.
All I can now ask is, "Why not?" I'm talking about regular conservatives here. Fringe Right? Fuhgedaboudit. But why won't the GOP move on this?
A partial answer here, maybe. In 1992, Bush was invited to the NAACP convention and declined. He got (faulty memory here) about 12-15% of the black vote. In 1996, Dole was invited to the NAACP convention and declined. He got about the same 12-15% of the black vote. In 2000, W was invited to the NAACP convention, went, gave a fairly good speech and was not well received. As a result, the NAACP ran that vicious attack ad and he got 8% of the black vote.
The bottom line is that the Republicans have been burned whenever they try to go after the black vote - possibly because the liberal black leadership goes bonkers if they see any inroads made on their plantation. As a result, the GOP tends to back off and cede the Demoncrats 80-90% of the black vote - because it is easier, not from evil intent.
That said, you are absolutely right - the GOP needs to begin actively seeking black votes. Not by pandering to the blacks (like the Demoncrats), but by including them in all their normal vote gettting activities. This type of approach will not help much in 2004, but might in 2014. The GOP needs to look beyond the next election. But they need to start NOW.
By the way, they need to do this with ALL minority groups - preach the gospel of conservatism and eventually many of the thinking members of these minorities will realize that the message is what is needed for this country.
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