Posted on 10/13/2002 2:12:41 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
Collusion by definition also implies conspiracy. I'm not sure Alden is describing so much a conspiracy as she's describing a group of extravagantly wealthy and powerful institutuons/entities with the same world view. They are acting in what they believe are their own best interests. The name of the game is control; elimination of variables and unknown quantities. Life becomes a lot easier when your aspiring competition can't get out of the starting gate.
What happens when/if these "captains" of industry and government coalesce into a working group? Collusion/conspiracy or not, the results are the same; our freedoms are history.
So, what do we do about it?
FGS
FGS
HA!!
I'm actaually shocked to hear you say that, FGS.
After all, they already have.
Done so for quite some time, too; or, at least since 1992.
What & who "is" the 'Rat Party, FGS??
...just define the 'Rat Party & you've got it.
Well Joe??
I see *Torie* finally got around to you, huh?
Look; if you want to know more about this one, just ask me in private.
I can refer you to a place where this hag's well known by a variety of people -- most journalists in one capacity or another -- & they'll not only give you the full & complete *skinny* on this one.
But also several excellent reasons why she's to be completely & totally ignored; at, all times.
OK?
HINT: can you *feel* the English Liberal-Socialist tack with her superiority complex, hmmmmm??
...btw; an excellent read, too.
What a very weird comment to pop up like a sore thumb in the middle of a wonderfully consistent Marxian analysis! I think the rest of the essay contradicts this - it is, in fact, about class warfare in the very sense in which Marx (and later Gramsci, and Foucault) were writing, certainly insofar as feudalism is concerned. If the author is accurate in characterizing the neo-robber-baron types as feudalists, then everything about this is precisely as Marx described the feudal system in Capital. Good grief, that's what the rest of the essay takes such detailed trouble to describe!
It certainly isn't the direction Marx suggested history would run vis a vis economic classes, but if I've understood the essay that's the author's point - this constitutes a regression to pre-industrialist days before the conflict between bourgeoisie and proletariat overwhelmed the control on capital possessed by the feudal classes. New entries to the latter class are comprised of the owners of what might be described as intellectual and informational capital: the intelligentsia and the owners of broadcast media. These are not, strictly speaking, Marxist, but their activities certainly do correspond to those of the neo-feudal classes in which the author describes the collectivist wealthy. And the mechanisms are very definitely Marxian.
I may, of course, have misunderstood the intention of the author but I rather think the "not class warfare" comment to be inaccurate with regard to the rest of the essay. Great read, BTW...gotta chew on it for awhile...
Ahhh! Why isn't that sweeeeeeet?!?!?
I dunno Lan. While corporate America is not exactly being dragged kicking and screaming into the abyss, they're not altogether committed either, IMO. Just a gut feeling, but outside of the mega corporations(and not all of them), I don't believe American businessmen are quite ready to embrace socialism corporatism just yet. I sense a reluctance to move completely to the dark side. I think medium to large corporations still wield enough clout to stymie the megas if they have the will.
What & who "is" the 'Rat Party, FGS??
I'll grant you that, but I also believe that many, particularly in business, are just hedging their bets; hoping, maybe praying, the Pubbies can regain control of the gubmint long enough to haul out the trash. If in fact the Pubbies will. I'm hoping to live long enough to find out.
In any case, the RATS are trying desperately to hold on to their slimmest of margins in the senate. I believe the driving force is not so much to retain some control for the sake of control, but moreso to keep the Pubbies OUT of control. My thinking is that if Pubbies take charge, the unwashed will get a taste of what if feels like to have adults running the gubmint, and they might like what they see. The RATS can't afford to let that happen, IMO.
FGS
Oh sure you do, FGS.
You're the smartest Texan posting these days; that makes ya worth two from any other state, y'know.
"While corporate America is not exactly being dragged kicking and screaming into the abyss, they're not altogether committed either, IMO."
Yes, that's very true; no argument from me, a'tall.
Still, may I repeat the oft said country saying which really governs this entire subject??
"Bad things happen when good people do nothing."
"Just a gut feeling, but outside of the mega corporations (and not all of them), I don't believe American businessmen are quite ready to embrace socialism corporatism just yet. I sense a reluctance to move completely to the dark side."
Sure.
Buttttt...the operative word here, FGS, has to be "yet."
Not being overly cynical (howdy Mud :o) ) or peddling *prophecies* of the Apocalypse here, either!
Just using my years, what I've witnessed happen over my lifetime to attempt projecting the continuation of *trends* that've been a "work in progress" for at least the past four decades.
"I think medium to large corporations still wield enough clout to stymie the megas if they have the will."
Well I think those medium to large corps owe their very existance to those megas, see?
So they'll do what they're told to do; or, they won't be around to *stymie* their own stockholders throwing out those who're endangering the organization's future with mere, "politics."
"Politics," are not a reason to impede profits, my friend; never has been, never will be.
Even during a time of war the goverment has intervened to "buy off" the capitalist in one way or another via contracts for everything from soup to nuts.
That's the whole genius of the Communist-Socialist plan, FGS.
They've (successfully) taken our own system & turned it against itself; against us.
Which let's face it, wasn't that hard to do.
Our way of life -- Capitalism -- to a great extent relies (tremendously) on personal "greed" to provide & fuel personal &/or group motivation & inspiration.
All so we may enjoy the fruits of the, "The American Dream."
Corrupting "greed" then, is much more than an oxymoron.
It's a *goal* & one so easy to acheive the Liberal-Socialists & Commies have to be shaking their heads they hadn't seen the tack a lot sooner.
Look.
Our friend Nakita Kruschev once made a statement at the UN, once.
He said, "We will bury you." [where "you" = the United States]
The panick resulting from that statement was most interesting insofar as the thing was completely taken out of context.
Nakita meant we Americans would destroy ourselves visa vi our greed & when that happened the Soviet Union & her people would be there to clean up the mess & "bury us"; and, naturally the American politicians -- both sides -- made great hay from this, for a variety of reasons, patriotism notwithstanding.
Well FGS?
Don'tcha think the hardcore Communist-Socialists might just be trying to accelerate Kruschev's prediction a bit?
Perhaps after these ultra-leftists have successfully infiltrated our government, acadamia, media, religion & lastly corporate America, at the highest levels?
The "unwashed" might just voluntarily *invite* a Socialist paradigm upon us??
NO, WAIT!!
Why the ultra-leftists are already embedded in all those places mentioned & we're *still* a Capitalist system!!
Shazam!
Well so far anyway, eh?
I mean we're not "Socialist," "Communist," nor can we (honestly) be called "Capitalist" anymore either, huh?
Than just what the hell are we, right now?
"Corporatist"?
Such a *nice* word, "Corporatism."
*Like* "Progressive"?
Words which won't evoke fear; that's the ticket!
Those words evoke nice, warm *fuzzies* while masking a simpler truth all the same. :o)
"...but I also believe that many, particularly in business, are just hedging their bets; hoping, maybe praying, the Pubbies can regain control of the gubmint long enough to haul out the trash."
Just good, old fashioned America-loving patriots, these businessmwo/men, eh?
Patriots who're just waiting around for their chance to strike a blow for Liberty, huh.
When the time's right then, "their guys" -- the 'Pubbies -- like Arlan Specter, Lincoln Chaffee et al will carry out this task, eh?
That right?
Hmmmmm...
You're a damned good man, FGS.
I'm sincerely honored to be acquainted with a person like you; moreover, everyone who knows you, can call you "friend" has been very blessed, indeed.
Know that, OK?
"If in fact the Pubbies will."
~yea.
Therein lies a tale to be told, doesn't it?
"In any case, the RATS are trying desperately to hold on to their slimmest of margins in the senate. I believe the driving force is not so much to retain some control for the sake of control, but moreso to keep the Pubbies OUT of control."
Well that's what the fighting's all about now, isn't it?
"My thinking is that if Pubbies take charge, the unwashed will get a taste of what if feels like to have adults running the gubmint, and they might like what they see."
They'll "learn" those government handouts aren't really for them.
See the light & reject an entire system which has more or less fostered their (~increasingly) complete dependency for how many years & generations, now?
OK.
"The RATS can't afford to let that happen, IMO."
~& a good opin it is.
Just one thing about that statement which is nawing at me, my dear friend.
...I'm not altogether sure our side can afford to let [that] happen, either.
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