The Ostrich Position: European anti-Americanism reflects a deeper malaise.

Opinion Journal ^ | 10/17/2002 | PAUL JOHNSON

[Pokey78]

LONDON--Americans have been angered by the hostile attitude of some Europeans to U.S. efforts to take the war against terrorism to its countries of origin in the Middle East--a recent example of which was the suggestion, by Nobel jurors, that Jimmy Carter deserved the Peace Prize for his opposition to war with Iraq. They are puzzled by European irrationalism and weakness. They wonder, too, how the Continental economies can sustain double-digit unemployment for years on end. But the causes for all this are deep-rooted. There is no longer a "sick man of Europe." The whole of Europe is sick.

[ThePythonicCow]

Bump for another wonderful Paul Johnson post from Pokey.

[bcoffey]

"By allowing the Depression to apply its brutal medicine, unsound businesses would have been bankrupted, the sound would have survived, and new ones quickly filled the gaps. Hoover did exactly the opposite,"

Let us hope Pres Bush has the will, fortitude and courage to stay the course and not apply Hooverish "bandaids" to the present problems.

[Harp]

Bracing. Would love to listen to him and Victor Hanson hash things out sometime regarding Europe, etc.

[Balata]

If Europe wants to commit suicide, why should we stand in their way? Afterall, the third time is the charm.

[lainde]

bttt

[liberallarry]

Andrew Mellon didn't have to suffer the worst of the "bracing medicine" he recommended to others. And where is the proof that it works - that it cures rather than kills the patient?

[Brian Allen]

Good one, Pokey. Ping for Ivan.

[x1stcav]

Andrew Mellon didn't have to suffer the worst of the "bracing medicine" he recommended to others. And where is the proof that it works - that it cures rather than kills the patient?


This is really too easy of a shot and I'm ashamed of myself for taking it, but, regarding your post, spoken like a? a? a?....liberal?

[Consort]

I don't care much for malaise or most other condiments, for that matter.

[liberallarry]

You should be ashamed. There's not a bit of thought in your reply.

The Black Death has been portrayed as the bracing medicine which led to the Renaissance.
War as the bracing medicine which leads a society to dominance.
Communists thought that dispossession was the bracing medicine which would lead to heaven on earth.
Currently, Islamics espouse something similar.
All these bracing medicines share the idea that the suffering and death of many individuals will lead to a better world.

It may be true that capitalism - Janus-faced though it is - is the best that humanity can do. But the article asserts that the great Depression of the '30s (and by analogy all depressions) would have been shorter if the government had simply stayed out of it. That's completely unproven. It's just as likely that there would have been civil war and revolution.

[Forgiven_Sinner]

It may be true that capitalism - Janus-faced though it is - is the best that humanity can do.

In terms of economic systems--yes.

But the article asserts that the great Depression of the '30s (and by analogy all depressions) would have been shorter if the government had simply stayed out of it. That's completely unproven. It's just as likely that there would have been civil war and revolution.

Actually it's completely proven. The Great Depression had the most government intervention in history and it was the longest. It was caused by government intervention--the Hawley Smoot trade bill killed world trade.

Study the business cycles of the 19th century in the US. There was a crash (that's what they were called before the euphemism "depression" was invented) every seven years or so. They were all over in a year or so. The 19th century averaged more growth than the 20th, despite the crashes. So the Great Depression would have lasted merely a year without the Hawley Smoot act and other monkey business from the Feds.

It's just as likely that there would have been civil war and revolution.

I assume you mean in the US. Describe this scenario you imagine was just as likely. I can't see it. We didn't have a civil war over depressions in the 19th century. Why would we in the 20th?

[liberallarry]

The short answer is the 19th century was very different than the 20th.

Even in the 1830's De Tocqueville worried about the fate of our system when the frontier closed. Labor unrest increased steadily from the 1870's. In the early 1900s Roosevelt was worried enough to establish national parks and bust trusts. Morgan barely staved off a 1930's Great Depression in '07. In 1913 the Federal Reserve was established to try to bring some stability to a system perceived as increasingly out of control. The Great War brought an end to the 19th century and the ancien regimes. Meanwhile Marxism in its varied forms was popularly perceived as an irrestible antidote (or evolutionary successor) to capitalist greed.

Hoover intervened because he felt he had to - in spite of his ideological preferences.

[americanbychoice]

I was born and raised in Germany, lived there as European director for my Company foe 16 years and visit my family twice a year. What I see happening in Germany and France is appalling. They have turned on the best friend they ever had (U S.) Their reporting has turned exclusively anti america and everything is our fault. Their economy is in shambles due to the selfinflicted wounds of their cradle to grave socialist mentality. They have 10% unemployment, (and growing), their social health insurance is broke. By the way, it isn't free, they pay 19.8% of their income for its inferior coverage. Be forewarned about the upcoming HILLARYCARE. Their citizens don't want to work since they are dependent, and used to, government assistance. The population is declining since they have become too lazy to breed. The population is aging and there is no one to help pay for the promises of a secure retirement. Oh, hark, there is hope for the future. The muslims are coming,the muslims are coming. Since this is about the only race that believes in multiplying for islams sake, they have become the saviour of the western europeans. I shudder at the thought of visiting Germany (Sorry, I have to)and being awakened at 7 AM by some islamic Mullah screaming a prayer from the top of the spiral columns of a mosque. It just takes away from the quaintness of a sleepy german village?
The german armed forces number 80 000, the present government wants to reduce that number to 30 000. We Americans should no longer accept the bill of paying for their defense. Pull our troops out of Europe and let the soldiers spend their money at home where it originated.
Objectively, we can't count on them to let us use our bases or their airspace in case of conflict, if it doesn't agree with Europe's mindset. Let them increase THEIR defense budget.
With all these problems facing them their Governments have a simple solution: Raise Taxes.

In my humble opinion,the Germans and the French are the most brazen embracers of the socialist/communist agenda.

We don't need backstabbing "friends" like them.
Join me in boycotting their products. BUY AMERICAN

[The Great Satan]

But the article asserts that the great Depression of the '30s (and by analogy all depressions) would have been shorter if the government had simply stayed out of it. That's completely unproven. It's just as likely that there would have been civil war and revolution.

Well, it is certainly prima facie interesting that the United States suffered by far it's worst ever economic crisis just sixteen years after the federal government passed the Federal Reserve Act, supposedly to abolish economic crises. There is a lesson in there somewhere.

[liberallarry]

There is a lesson in there somewhere

Yes there is. The world is a strange and dangerous place - where we are forced to act upon imperfect information, knowing that our actions might make things worse rather than better.

It is perfectly legitimate to think that Hoover and Roosevelt made a mistake by intervening. It is not legitimate to criticize them for acting as they thought best. If you think you have a better way then try to get the nation to pursue it. It might turn out that your way is best...or it might not.

[liberallarry]

It is also interesting that during the '30s and '40s the rest of the world suffered through one of the worst periods in recorded history. We passed through it relatively unscathed and emerged as the most dominant power in world history.

Perhaps Hoover, the Roosevelts, etc. were right after all. It all depends on your point of view.

[The Great Satan]

It is not legitimate to criticize them for acting as they thought best.

In other words, "they meant well." So, what? Hitler "meant well." "Meant well" doesn't count for squat.

[The Great Satan]

It all depends on your point of view.

Got any more gassy liberal airhead platitudes you'd like to post before we move on?

[liberallarry]

I objected to the euphemism "bracing medicine". I still do.

My liberal "airhead platitudes" are no worse and no better then your conservative, "rock-head proofs".