Man who killed burglar jailed

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | (Filed: 17/10/2002) | UNK

[SWO]

A man who stabbed to death a burglar he found in his family's home has been jailed for five years.

Barry-Lee Hastings, 25, stabbed Roger Williams, 35, a total of 12 times after mistaking a crowbar in his hand for a machete. But Old Bailey Judge Brian Barker told Hastings that he had gone too far and his actions were not justified.

Hastings, of Wood Green, north London, was found guilty of manslaughter last month and remanded for reports. His family shouted "This country stinks" as he was led away and said later they would appeal.

They were backed by supporters of farmer Tony Martin who was jailed for shooting dead a burglar.

Judge Barker told Hastings he had repeatedly stabbed Mr Williams in the back, the majority of the attack taking place outside the house when the possibility of danger was over.

He said: "What you did could not possibly have been done while you were still under threat. You had gone into the attack and you were engaged in retaliation.

"Although Roger Williams was a burglar and had no right to be there, a householder is not entitled to use more than reasonable force to defend himself. His presence did not justify the actions you took.

"No one can fail to have sympathy for a householder or visitor who without warning found himself in the position you did when you reached the front door."

[SWO]

Yet another British Lamb is punished for acting like a wolf.

See also; Man guilty of manslaughter after tackling career burglar By Sue Clough, Courts Correspondent (Filed: 11/09/2002) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/11/nburg11.xml

I stabbed burglar to protect my two young children, says father. By Sue Clough, Courts Correspondent (Filed: 04/09/2002) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/04/nstab04.xml

'I killed burglar because he was coming at me with a machete' By Sue Clough, Courts Correspondent (Filed: 30/08/2002) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/08/30/nburg30.xml

[SWO]

Or should that be OOF?

[Phantom Lord]

It is virtually impossible to legally protect your home and family in England. One couple was forced to remove barbwire from the top of their fence they put up to stop burglars from climbing the fence. The reason they were forced to remove it was that its presence could injur a burglar trying to climb the fence!

When I was in London last summer I noticed that a lot of concrete walls around homes and apartment buildings had broken glass mixed in the concrete. The reasons are obvoius.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Reasonalbe force? Who can sit in judgement when they weren't there? So the perp is now the victim?

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Reasonalbe = reasonable.

[chuknospam]

"This country stinks"

That pretty much sums it up.

[Vic3O3]

Egads! Just what has Britain fallen to? Will they just come out & say their people have no inherent right to self defense? I feel sad for the British people.

[Hodar]

"This country stinks"

You should try their cooking....

[KarlInOhio]

What's next? A posthumous war crimes trial for Churchill for using more force than needed during the Battle of Britain?

[SFBiker80814]

Thank God this attitude did not permeate in WW II.....

....well America is headed down this too....unless we take more serious action.

[Sloth]

Judge Barker told Hastings he had repeatedly stabbed Mr Williams in the back, the majority of the attack taking place outside the house when the possibility of danger was over.

Yeah, if I had stabbed but not incapacitated a home-invasion burglar, and he left the house, why, I'd sleep like a friggin' baby with the doors unlocked because naturally 'the possibility of danger is over.'

[ConservativeMan55]

When I first read this, I thought the story was based here in America. I was thinking something is seriously wrong here.
Then when I saw that it was England, I wasn't suprised.

[Phantom Lord]

You should try their cooking....

Little known by foreigners, in England one need not obtain any permits of any kind to open a restuarant. And that included HEALTH permits! Be careful where you eat when you are there.

[ConservativeMan55]

England is the supposed model of what Liberals want this country to look like?
Ridiculous!
Look at California, a state which has been taken over by liberals, and the sorry state it is in, then look at England. Uggh.

[joesnuffy]

Death From Within.....English cooks...

[Phantom Lord]

Scottish food is better. Except for Haggis!

[joesnuffy]

The Elite (Royals) are protected by their own armed guards...of course
Its the peasants that needs be controlled...and just for fun immigration of the dregs of the universe are thrown into the mix and given more rights than the indigenous peasants...
Just like one giant ant farm for the elite

[Teacher317]

By all means, let the burglar with the crowbar into your home, and then you might be allowed to try to defend yourself (without a gun). The buglar only brought the crowbar to pry to open the cabinets, of course, not to use on you, your wife or your children! How DARE you have the bad manners to strike him before he gets a first swing at you! That brutally criminal homeowner should be locked up, for the safety of the community! I hope that the burglar will get the finest medical treatment, happily paid for by the state, and will be released as soon as possible since he has obviously suffered enough... AND he never robbed the house! No charges, your honor.

[ReadMyMind]

The problem here is he stabbed the guy 12 times. He's getting 5 years for incompetence. Had he been able to kill him with one cut, he'd probably not be going to jail.

Lesson: Learn to use a knife properly before attempting to exsanguinate a burglar in your home.

[hchutch]

Here, it would not even have gone to trial - or if it had, the jury would have acquitted in a heartbeat.

[Teacher317]

buglar? He brought a bugle with him? (a high-powered bugle, even) ;^)

[FairWitness]

Barry-Lee Hastings, 25, stabbed Roger Williams, 35, a total of 12 times after mistaking a crowbar in his hand for a machete.

I suppose a crowbar is a little less dangerous than a machete, but it could still easily become a lethal weapon and I would prefer to have something better than a knife to go against the guy holding the crowbar.

[Tacis]

This article highlights the next great fear of the US gun nuts. Once they have taken away all firearms from Americans and made the nation safe, they are concerned that criminals will beging using knives to commit crimes. An ordinary knife is within acceptable risk limits but these new fangled automatic repeating knives that allow multiple stabs in a short period are going to take special legislation to outlaw.

[MotleyGirl70]

LOL! Sad thing is; "Aint that the truth" (via O.J.)

[E. Pluribus Unum]

No wonder "A Clockwork Orange" was set in England.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Don't let this AH, "Judge Brian Barker", rest....

[thedugal]

This makes me absolutely sick. When you are being attacked in your own home you kill the attacker with whatever means available. You don't stop and ask if he's had enough after giving him a good scratch.

Imagine this scenario:
Man attempts to defend his home, and stabs attacker once in the arm. The attacker falls to the ground, and the homeowner turns to return to bed. The attacker regains himself and hits the homeowner on the back of the head with a crowbar rendering him unconscious. The attacker continues to smash the man in the back of the head with the crowbar until his skull is turned to puddy. The attacker then decides that prior to robbing whatever valuables might be found, he'd like to have his way with the now deceased homeowners wife.

After my 5 years were up, I'd be giving that judge a visit to see how he protects his home from me.

[dennisw]

No way is Australia as bad. They have a vestigial frontier mentality.

[bandleader]

Do you really suppose that criminals are going to turn their guns in?I guess you were BORN AT NIGHT,LAST NIGHT!!!!

[TheLurkerX]

Better yet, learn how to use lime and a shovel.

[TheLurkerX]

The Winchester lever action bayonet?

[lormand]

Recently, I saw a program about video cameras being used to stop crime in England. One story showed a guy confronting a burglar with his video camera. When the thug started to confront the home owner, he ducked back into his estate.

My policy is to not arm myself with a video camera if someone is burglarizing my home, but to arm myself with a mechanism that will be the final judgement for the unfortunate criminal.

England is destined for complete collapse at the hands of barbarians.

[Sweet_Sunflower29]

Barry-Lee Hastings, 25, stabbed Roger Williams, 35, a total of 12 times after mistaking a crowbar in his hand for a machete.

I'm still trying to figure out how *that* little mix-up was made...

[daylate-dollarshort]

Not only is Scottish food better- their thinking is quite a bit more rational.

An Englishman, Irishman and a Scotsman are all playing golf with their wives.

The Englishman's wife steps up to the tee and as she bends over to place her ball a gust of wind reveals her lack of lingerie. "Good God! Why aren't you wearing any?" her husband demanded. "Well, you don't give me enough housekeeping money to afford to buy any.'' The Englishman immediately reaches into his pocket and says, "For the sake of decency here's 20 quid, go and buy some."

Next the Irishman's wife bends over to set her ball on the tee, a gust of wind revealing her lack of lingerie. "Why!" he exclaimed. She replies, "I can't afford any on the money you give me." He reaches into his pocket and says, "For the sake of decency here's 20 quid, go and buy some."

Lastly, the Scotsman's wife bends over. The wind also reveals her lack of lingerie. "Hoots mon woman! How could you forget it?" She too explains, "You don't give me enough housekeeping money to be able to afford any." The Scot reaches into his pocket and says, "For the sake of decency here's a comb, tidy yourself up a bit!"

[moyden]

Un-bee-lievable!

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

Barry-Lee Hastings, 25, stabbed Roger Williams, 35, a total of 12 times after mistaking a crowbar in his hand for a machete. But Old Bailey Judge Brian Barker told Hastings that he had gone too far and his actions were not justified.

This is sheer incompetence on the legal defense of Hastings. First you need to engage the enemy front or back to keep the advantage in combat. Never let your enemy get the advantage of higher ground or cover. If Williams was truly fleeing, he would have not been stabbed; he would have been running away and out of reach. Second, Williams had a crowbar in hand. As a club, a crowbar has the advantage of reach over a knife. Anyone with training in the use of martial arts sticks would likely prefer to use a crowbar over a knife.

I’ll bet the Old Bailey judge packs a hand gun for his protection.

[Utopia]

Except for Haggis!
Auch laddie, Yir dinna be no Scott. Haggis es an aw bonnie wey.

[for-q-clinton]

Yep, stabbing an armed burglar in the back in England, is like shooting someone in the back in the US as he was running away from you.

There's a huge difference between the two. In hand-to-hand combat it's pretty hard to stab someone facing you when they are armed with a crowbar (or even another knife). Each of you will probably get hurt and if you're more skilled you may win, but you'll probably still go to the hospital.

But I guess this judge thinks it's cowardly to stab someone that is armed with a crowbar in the back just to protect your family and property. Oh well, just one more place I won't ever visit.

[PatrioticAmerican]

bump

[sheik yerbouty]

"Nogood deed goes unpunished."

[Cuttnhorse]

Best joke of the week award daylate! LOL!!

[RogueIsland]

Yep, stabbing an armed burglar in the back in England, is like shooting someone in the back in the US as he was running away from you.

Seems to me that if an unskilled person is grappling with an opponent and they are clinched, the stab wounds would likely to be to the opponent's back.

[ibbryn]

Spinneyhead, any comments? Still happy UK subjects are unarmed? Ever been wacked in the head with a crowbar?

[TomSmedley]

Thank God this attitude did not permeate in WW II.....

Victim disarmament had gone pretty far by 1939. The UK begged for small arms. American hunters obliged. After the war, rather than returning these precious tools of freedom, the brits used 'em as rebar. Thanks a lot.

[Sir Gawain]

"This country stinks"

[MadIvan]

"This country stinks"

Correction: the present government stinks.

Regards, Ivan

[Prodigal Son]

When I was in London last summer I noticed that a lot of concrete walls around homes and apartment buildings had broken glass mixed in the concrete. The reasons are obvoius.

Yeah, I was just down in Newcastle and Sunderland yesterday and noticed a bood bit of that myself.

[Prodigal Son]

bood bit = good bit