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Should the US have become involved in the Vietnam conflict?
The History Channel ^ | 18 OCT 2002 | Producers

Posted on 10/18/2002 10:13:43 PM PDT by onedoug

It's that time again...tho re-fight the Vietnam War. This time via the online poll for the program The History Channel cablecast this evening on the subject.

I voted yes, despite the politics that led us there, because I refuse to believe that so many brave Americans lost their lives their needlesly.

I yet feel our involvemnt there was a great enterprise from which, as was the case with the fall of the Soviet Union, we will yet emerge victorious.

I'm curious what Freepers...expecially my fellow Vietnam veterancs, may think.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: vietnamcontroversy
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To: onedoug
JFK left a Communist regime 90 miles off our shore when he should have whacked it out out of existence, and it has been leaking Commie bacteria into the Western Hemisphere ever since.

Then he mired us in Nam, in an attempt to salvage his reputation, his re-election, and his ego.

Vietnam was every bit as unimportant to American strategic interests as Cuba was important to Communist strategic interests. The Russians were laughing at us the whole time, and rightly so, for giving a damn about Vietnam while they fomented revolution right under our noses.

But nobody, including some on this website, will stand up and damn this "martyred" scumbag for what he was - a clear candidate for the most destructive President to ever take office, vying for that title with Roosevelt and now Clinton.

21 posted on 10/19/2002 1:04:19 AM PDT by fire_eye
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To: onedoug
In retrospect, no. The outcome would have been the same: the North conquering the South. Only with fewer American casualties and trauma victims. No memorial wall in D.C.

And the Vietnam War gave the anti-American left a HUGE break, essentially allowing them to "take the moral high ground" and re-define society along the lines they wanted it to take.

The results are all around you.

--Boris

22 posted on 10/19/2002 1:45:51 AM PDT by boris
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To: onedoug
Our first mistake in Vietnam was backing the French return to Indochina after WWII. Eisenhower was surely correct in refusing the French nuclear weapons after Dien Bien Phu fell, and in refusing to allow American troops to aid the French in Vietnam. Douglas MacArthur, probably the best Asia hand in the US military, opposed our involvement, and was widely quoted as having advised that the US should never become involved in a land war on the Asian continent. Our involvement only became inevitable once the Kennedys started messing about in Vietnamese politics, backing the coup against Diem. I lost many friends and several Brother Rats in Vietnam and always supported our troops, but that was a war in which the civilian political leadership was abysmal and the senior military leadership craven. I still get angry when I think about Vietnam.
23 posted on 10/19/2002 2:34:25 AM PDT by CatoRenasci
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To: onedoug
No.

Brave Americans have always lost their lives needlessly.
24 posted on 10/19/2002 2:56:26 AM PDT by karlamayne
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To: Texas_Jarhead
"The U.S. did what was right and noble in opposing such an evil force."

IF we fought it to win it, Vietnam was arguably a war to have been "involved" in, but we didn't. Ergo, my vote would have to be "no".

25 posted on 10/19/2002 2:58:18 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: CW_Conservative
The French were embroiled in Viet Nam and fighting an action they couldn't hold or win. As usual we sent help which turned into troops and the French as usual pulled out leaving us holding the bag. Sfter President Kennedy was assasinated our President Johnson with no expertise micro managed a war that he screwed up very badly, lied to the people, lied about winning and deserves to rot in hell, right along with Mr. Carter,and Mr.
Clinton.
26 posted on 10/19/2002 3:09:44 AM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: wingnuts'nbolts
and that about sums it up.
27 posted on 10/19/2002 7:06:07 AM PDT by Enemy Of The State
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To: onedoug
I requested assignment to Viet Nam when I went in 67 and I would do it again.
28 posted on 10/19/2002 7:20:57 AM PDT by Ace the Biker
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To: Anti NRO
And if they chose Islamic Fundamentalism we will allow that?

No. Islamism is incompatable with Western civilization, and must be crushed.

29 posted on 10/19/2002 7:27:45 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Ace the Biker
Me too. Welcome home!
30 posted on 10/19/2002 7:29:38 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: wingnuts'nbolts
After President Kennedy was assasinated our President Johnson with no expertise micro managed a war that he screwed up very badly, lied to the people, lied about winning and deserves to rot in hell, right along with Mr. Carter,and Mr. Clinton.

Exactly! LBJ was the monster who assured we would lose in Vietnam. We won militarily but weren't allowed to finish the job by scum like LBJ and the Democrat Congress.

The Commies would have taken all of Asia if we had not fought in Vietnam.

31 posted on 10/19/2002 7:37:46 AM PDT by toddst
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To: onedoug
Should the US have become involved in the Vietnam conflict?

Eisenhower didn't think so, and I agree with him. After Korea many Americans thought we should never become involved in another ground war in Asia. This is not to slight U.S. motives or actions, especially those of our service men and women.

On balance, the Vietnam involvement probably cost us more than it could ever have gained. It unloosed social disintegration and lead to unchecked third world immigration. Would the USSR have disintegrated anyway? Hard to say. Viewnam caused Carter who caused Reagan who caused the downfall of the USSR. (Prior to Carter, Democrats had successfully demonized Goldwater.)

32 posted on 10/19/2002 7:45:19 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets
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To: karlamayne
I believe you're wrong in this. I went back to Vietnam in APR 2000. Younger leadership has moved decidedly away from the true totalarian horror of land reform in the eighties to freer form economics. Granted that communists never give over power willingly. But that Vietnam could become the dominant economic force in Asia if they were free, is easy to see given their creativity, innovation, industriousness and straining entrepeneurial spirit. That realized - and I believe it's coming - and we certainly then will have won.
33 posted on 10/19/2002 7:47:20 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug
For openers, we never should have supported the French re-colonial conquest of Indo-China after WW11. Subverting the Geneva Accords of 1954 was myopic along the lines of ignoring the nationalistic impulse of the NLF. In not too many years the "Red monolith" would see the NVA in combat with their comrades from China and Cambodia. Respect for thoser who served, but not a pretty page in our nation's history. (In anticipation of rebuttals, I was honorably discharged in 1961.)
34 posted on 10/19/2002 8:43:25 AM PDT by gabby hayes
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To: CatoRenasci
Douglas MacArthur, probably the best Asia hand in the US military, opposed our involvement, and was widely quoted as having advised that the US should never become involved in a land war on the Asian continent. Our involvement only became inevitable once the Kennedys started messing about in Vietnamese politics...

From blowing off the original Bay of Pigs invasion plan requirement that air superiority must first be established over the Bay of Pigs beachead before the invasion could proceed to getting the U.S. involved in a land war in Vietnam, John F. Kennedy must rank as one of the most militarily inept Commanders-in-Chief that the United States has ever been saddled with.

From a purely geographical standpoint, Vietnam was not a wise theater of operations to draw the line against Communism.By comparison, Korea was relatively easy.

In Korea, the battlefield was a peninsula. U.S. seapower was dominat and was therefore able to seal off the western, southern and eastern flanks of the peninsula. That left only a relatively narrow northern front to defend without fear of flanking movements by the enemy. Although the unwillingness to wage war directly against Communist China made outright victory in all of Korea impossible, the defense of South Korea was a straight foreward matter of defending a narrow northern front with impregnable flanks.

In Vietnam, the extremely long an narrow geography of South Vietnam and the jungle terrain resulted in an indefensible western flank. No matter where the U.S. fought, one or both U.S. flanks, if any flanks were possible at all, would be "in the air". The enemy could outflank any U.S. position merely by marching more deeply into the neighboring "neutral" country and re-entering South Vietnam either to the north or to the south of the U.S. position.

The unwillingness to wage war directly against Communist China once again made outright victory in all of Vietnam impossible and guranteed a constant supply of war materiel for the enemy across the Sino-Vietnamese border.

The resulting war with no defined front and indefensible flanks meant that the enemy could choose when, where and if to fight and progress could only be measured in the dubious coin of "body counts". America is not psychologically suited for wars of attrition.

Vietnam's geography neutralized America's dominant seapower and forced the U.S. land forces to fight on the enemy's terms. A better theater should have been chosen to make a stand against Communism in the 1960's.

35 posted on 10/19/2002 9:00:57 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: gabby hayes
I agree with this early history of the conflict, re Archimedes Patti, Why Vietnam?

Ho Chi Minh solicted Truman through Patti (then with the OSS) for direct US support in resisting French recolonialization, claiming that he wasn't really a Communist, but had simply utilized it in fomenting for independence. Academically, it's certainly interesting to speculate on how the whole scenario may have panned out had those decisions in Washington taken that tack.

Best to you.

36 posted on 10/19/2002 9:06:14 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: fire_eye
[ "But nobody, including some on this website, will stand up and damn this "martyred" scumbag for what he was - a clear candidate for the most destructive President to ever take office, vying for that title with Roosevelt and now Clinton." ]

I will. JFK was as almost as stupid as Al Gore. Ask any Cuban trained by him in Miami for the Bay of Pigs then sent to Cuba and then stranded there, ON PURPOSE. I've talked to some of them. Very few escaped then fled to Miami a 2nd time, most spent their lives in Castro jails. Seems that after they landed at the bay of pigs(in Cuba) they were supposed to get ammo and supplies after the initial landing, guns but little ammo. Well, Kennedy, told the supply ships to back home.... leaving the "troops" recruited, trained, and sent by Kennedy there with no ammo, food, or anybody to talk to on their walky-talkies. Then John's buddy Castro came in and mopped them all up. STRANDED, screwed, blued and tatooed and watching the ship's leave with a "curly salute" and a kyuk, kyuk, kyuk..... Ah!.... did'nt know about that eh!.

The 3 stooges in American politics, John, Bobby, and the inimitable Teddy..... Beverly Hillbillies of Tax-e-chuettes, out shooting for some food, except what came up was CRUD, (not crude), they already had the money.

And to this day children, a pork bellyied double ought spy stills lurks the halls of the Senate... the Jethro Bodine of the idle rich, Teddy Kennedy.

John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a Moron, but Teddy is beneath contemp.

Have a nice day.....

37 posted on 10/19/2002 9:30:51 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: onedoug
Only If We Were In It For VICTORY!General Douglas A.MacArthur said that "In War,There Is No Sustitute For Victory"!!
38 posted on 10/19/2002 10:11:35 AM PDT by bandleader
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To: onedoug
... because I refuse to believe that so many
brave Americans lost their lives their
needlesly.

"I refuse to believe" is the refuge
of the cornered.

39 posted on 10/19/2002 11:46:03 AM PDT by gcruse
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To: gcruse
"...cornered."

Perhaps, but for #33, where I meant, "totalitarian".

40 posted on 10/19/2002 1:43:52 PM PDT by onedoug
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