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London's Evening Standard --
"Iraqis Linked to Oklahoma Atrocity"
The Evening Standard ^
| 10/21/02
| James Langton
Posted on 10/21/2002 3:13:49 AM PDT by glorygirl
click here to read article
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Wonder if it will happen here?
1
posted on
10/21/2002 3:13:50 AM PDT
by
glorygirl
To: *OKCbombing; Alamo-Girl; Gary Aldrich; amom; archy; aristeides; anymouse; AtticusX; backhoe; ...
ping
2
posted on
10/21/2002 3:15:52 AM PDT
by
glorygirl
To: glorygirl
3
posted on
10/21/2002 3:26:59 AM PDT
by
backhoe
To: glorygirl
Thanks for the ping.
To: glorygirl
If it's hitting the foriegn papers too, maybe Bush does plan to open it up. This is encouraging, IMO.
To: glorygirl
Just what kind of involvement existed between the U.S. Govt. and the bombers of Oklahomas Murrah building?
Everyone is aware of the be on the lookout order directly after the bombing. Everyone is aware of the guy at the truck rental place that was with McVeigh. Everyone has heard of munitions stored at the Murrah building by the feds in violations of existing laws.Everyone has heard of the presence of fed bomb squads roaming around Ok city the morning of the bombing. Everyone knows that Clinton was toast if this hadn't happened.
Do you trust the U.S. Govt? How about the F.B.I.,C.I.A.,B.A.T.F.,I.R.S.?
I haven't trusted the govt since L.B.J. swore he would get
the U.S. involvement in VietNam ended. Then he put another 400,000 American troops over there and for what? The oil that used to be in the gulf of Tonkin?
I an tired of the U.S. Govt. and its employees thinking they know what is best for stupid little old me. Try telling the truth and then maybe we the people would support our govt just a little more.
As it is I don't trust my govt even a little for I know they lie at nearly every step.
To: Joe Boucher
The US government is made up of citizens just like you and me. I trust it no more, but also no less, than my fellow citizens. What's more, the US government is divided into many factions and divisions justs as are we citizens. Some factions are more trustworthy than others, and like religious groups and rotary clubs and business associations in the civilian world, the integrity of each division and department changes over time depending on how responsibly they are managed. Thus, the FBI can be corrupt if led by corrupt people or if those who lead it do not have the power to fire those under them for mismanagement or fraud. Much of the corruption seen in government is because the federal union protects corrupt employees from being dismissed. Instead, it is easier to get rid of them by promoting or transferring them into someone elses' office.
It is wrong to think of 'the government' as being uniformly corrupt and it is wrong to think of it as being consistently corrupt. The odds that everyone in government is corrupt is about the same as the odds that everyone in your neighborhood or at your work is corrupt.
The reason 'the government' seems so corrupt is because you never see the good and honorable peope in it, nor the things they do, making the news. When some guy in the Army cuts the budget on a program because he does an end-run around the designers of a product and fixes a problem without them, he gets a bit of paper on his desk commending him for saving a few million dollars, but it doesn't make the news because it's his job. When some Naval officer refuses to be pressured into certifying untrained or poorly trained crewmen because in his view, they aren't able to do the job, it doesn't make the news that instead those crewmen ended up getting proper training because of his obstinance- it's his job. When some FBI agent cracks a routine case or refuses to be bribed it doesn't make the news because this is their everyday job. When some patent examiner gives some application pointers to an inventor that helps him in his legal standing when he goes to market his product, it doesn't make the news. It isn't news when things go right... it's only news when things go wrong.
Look at your fellow workers and if you see them stealing from your employer, then you can expect about the same level of corruption from government, too. And if you say nothing when you see it happen, you can expect a government employee to do the same thing. If you see people at your work doing an honorable job or going beyond the expectations of their employer, then you can expect the same level of integrity in government too. And if you do your best work for your employer, or if you yourself are a good manager and employer, you can expect a government worker like yourself, or a government manager or public official, will do the same outstanding work, too. No more and no less.
7
posted on
10/21/2002 4:09:10 AM PDT
by
piasa
To: piasa
Look at your fellow workers and if you see them stealing from your employer, then you can expect about the same level of corruption from government, too.Your comments are interesting and logical, but, as a heroine of mine would say..."check your premises".
The difference between "your fellow workers" and those in government is that government has a monopoloy on the legal use of force.
That changes everyhting.
8
posted on
10/21/2002 4:27:39 AM PDT
by
RJCogburn
To: glorygirl
Thanks for posting.
Senior aides to US Attorney-General John Ashcroft
As Ashcroft has been consistent in ignoring government corruption.....campaign finance task force, Boston FBI office, lynx fur and BIA backdating crimes, etc, I think we can expect nothing good from him in this matter.
9
posted on
10/21/2002 4:29:55 AM PDT
by
RJCogburn
To: glorygirl; backhoe
Thanks for the post, thanks for the link.
10
posted on
10/21/2002 4:31:47 AM PDT
by
PGalt
To: piasa
Yeah yeah, I am aware that the govt is made up of everyday citizens. I am also aware that the U.S. govt or should I say
its representatives often lie. For their own angle or whatever they lie. The Creep that led the F.B.I. allowed the release to China our nuclear secrets. The F.B.I. failed to reign in the obvious corruption within the clintoon regeim. The F.B.I. has covered up so very many illegalities including giving Hitlery thousands of dossiers about everyone that may someday become a challenger.
The shooting down of the Jet in N.Y. is nothing but a coverup. Who are you going to believe your own lying eyes or the F.B.I? How many witnesses came forward to tell of seeing a missile? How many folks saw McVeigh with arabic looking people in the days and months before the Murrah bombing. What? It didn't fit the scenario the feds had made up?
Oh yeah and what about the F.B.I. allowing the frame up of a guy for murder even though they knew the guy didn't do it. To protect their plant they leave a guy in jail for years?
What about the lies and no subsequent punishment by the murderers at Ruby Ridge and Waco?
If a govt. official says it is a clear sunny day I say check it out for yourself because it very likely is a lie if stated by a govt. type.
The guy Halstrom stated once early in the investigation of the airline bombing that if the truth came out it would blow the hell out of the govt. story.
I can go on and on about this govt. It is not the govt of the United States I love it is the people of the United States and the country itself I love. And dont give me this crap about the govt being the people.
For instance I went to a local airport and took a friend for a ride in a small plane. Before the ride we walked around the airport for about 2 hours and asked 11 individuals who were working on their planes what they thought aobut the F.A.A.? Responses ranged from incompetant boobs to outright criminal. OF the 11 I asked the question all 11 had nothing but bad to say about the gestappo or F.A.A.
To: glorygirl
Wonder how this all would have panned out if this happened when Reagan, Bush 41 or Bush 43 was in office. I can't for the life of me imagine they would've conducted the mass coverup Clinton and his cronies did.
12
posted on
10/21/2002 4:58:16 AM PDT
by
ejdrapes
To: MadIvan
If you don't mind, maybe you can let us know how this story is playing over there, if at all. Also, maybe you can characterize this publication a bit for us.
They got a few of the facts wrong.
Thanks.
To: glorygirl
Jayna just added article to her site jaynadavis.com
14
posted on
10/21/2002 9:54:26 AM PDT
by
sjersey
To: glorygirl
Hmmm. Should be interesting to track Clinton and his whereabouts/public statements if this story ever breaks. Reno too.
To: glorygirl
Bump..!
To: glorygirl
Well isn't this just rich! US Attorney-General John Ashcroft could not wait....was peeing his pants...to have McVeigh killed. And now he wants to connect Iraq to OKC. But the one guy who could have told the whole story....is dead! Thanks a lot Ashcroft.
17
posted on
10/21/2002 12:08:56 PM PDT
by
hove
To: glorygirl
But she has evidence that up to 12,000 Iraqis were allowed into America after the Gulf war. At the time I thought the decision by Bush I to resettle thousands of enemy soldiers in the US immediately following the war was the very pinnacle of irresponsibility.
SHEER madness.
18
posted on
10/21/2002 12:34:59 PM PDT
by
skeeter
To: hove
Yep, I feel the same way. I could never understand what the awful rush was to execute him. Rest assured, he should not and would not have escaped his date with the needle but I would've made certain he had no tales left to tell.
bttt
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