Priest, bishop clash in sex, theft scandals

THE WASHINGTON TIMES ^ | 11/12/2002 | George Archibald

[COBOL2Java]

I've been pondering a reply all afternoon. All I can say is thank God I am a member of the Laity, and can drive across the Potomac River to attend Mass in the Archdiocese of Washington. If on the other hand I were a cleric in the Diocese of Arlington, subject to a vow of Obedience to my Ordinary (i.e., Bishop), I dunno...I would probably be a very bitter man - or a saint. It's probably that vow of Obedience which has caught Fr. Haley in a bind.

That being said, I pray every day for priests and bishops.

[Siobhan]

Blessed salt is always good. For exorcism (and for cooking for those who need an avenue of grace in their lives).

[Notwithstanding]

Wow - the Chancellor tolerates the murder of preborns merely because the baby's daddy is a pervert (Palp favors abortion in the case of incest), and then has the nerve to preach zero tolerance about some other evil (priestly scandals).

Palp - you are something else.

[Aristophanes]

Palpatine's a baby-killer sympathizer?

Figures.

[ltlflwr]

...probably after he demolishes any dissent on genuflecting during Holy Communion.

From the GIRM 2000, paragraph 160:

160 The priest then takes the paten or a vessel and goes to the communicants, who, as a rule, approach in a procession.

The faithful are not permitted to take up the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice themselves, and still less hand them on to one another. The faithful may communicate either standing or kneeling, as established by the Conference of Bishops. However, when they communicate standing, it is recommended that they make an appropriate gesture of reverence, to be laid down in the same norms, before receiving the Sacrament.

However, our pastor told us that we should bow our heads which is the "appropriate" sign of reverence before receiving Communion, instead of genuflecting (for the sake of unity).

[eastsider]

: (

[Siobhan]

Thank you for that nauseating information about Palpatine. Didn't Chancellor Palpatine turn out to be the evil Emperor consumed by the dark side of the Force in Star Wars?

But back to the subject of murdering a child in the womb conceived through incest:
Because a parent commits incest the child produced receives a sentence of death? That is insane. The babe in the womb committed no crime.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The climate of institutional control that conservative and traditional Catholics worship is one which engenders the stifling of true spirituality, fiefdoms and coverups when those fiefdoms engage in corrupt practices. The Churches of the East booted you out over it, the Protestant Reformation occurred over it, and you guys have never learned the lesson.

There you sit, wringing your hands and whimpering in the hope that Rome will do something about it, all while Rome, and her attitude toward power and authority is the problem.

Your Pope has plenipotentiary powers of discipline, which he failed to exercise. how many lapses have resulted in church censure over the millennia? What about even over the past century? How about the exercise of rigid Papal discipline over the responsible clerics in the Vatican bank scandal? How many Catholic Germans were excommunicated over their activities during the second world war?

For whatever reason, Rome has chosen, in order to preserve institutional power, to practice a form of moral inversion - where the powerful and the connected are rewarded for their "service" by a lack of censure for heinous activities.

How many mobsters have been excommunicated, and how many priests and bishops happily show up at the events of a crime family with greasy smiles and outstretched palms?

[Desdemona]

Didn't Chancellor Palpatine turn out to be the evil Emperor consumed by the dark side of the Force in Star Wars?

Yup. The lady knows her Star Wars trivia.

This guy is a piece of work.

[Siobhan]

This guy is a piece of work.

That he is. You on the other hand are a tremendous asset to all of us Catholic freepers.

(I'm also eagerly awaiting your first album).

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The pregnant child committed no crime. You would enslave one to another, wrecking her life and putting her through in favor of the unknown. Of course, since Catholicism has historically been about making non Catholics suffer for sake of the tortured definitions and beliefs of Catholics, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, especially since you'd have a nice Catholic adoption agency ready to broker the baby for tens of thousands of dollars (hey, and its pure profit - the birth mother can receive no money by law, but the agency can really pad its pockets with the wreckage of the life of a raped preteen).

[Campion]

The climate of institutional control that conservative and traditional Catholics worship

Sorry, wrong religion. We worship God, not "climates". I'm sure you can find some neo-pagans out there who worship climates.

The Churches of the East booted you out over it

Huh? Out of what did they "boot us," and when did this "booting" take place?

How many mobsters have been excommunicated

Most mobsters are guilty of sins which render them unable to receive the Eucharist anyway, not that mobsters outside of the movies actually spend much time in church. Excommunicating them would accomplish nothing. You might as well excommunicate Saddam Hussein, for all the good it will do you.

[Campion]

The pregnant child committed no crime.

Neither has the dead baby. But, of course, being turned into humanburger and flushed down the drain with the rest of the sewage is infinitely preferable to ... [you'll tell us, won't you?] ...

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Your Cardinal Humbert received the Bull of Excommunication in 1054, excommunicating the Pope. Dontcha read history?

[Desdemona]

Okay, you want to know? Just remember: you asked.

The Churches of the East booted you out over it, - politcal power struggle/split. We weren't booted: it was a full-scale split.

the Protestant Reformation occurred over it, - power struggle/I didn't get my way so I'm leaving (resuling in excommunication) split. By a bunch of people who thought they were smarter than they were.

and you guys have never learned the lesson.

Oh, we learned a lesson alright - don't argue with the ignorant until they learn what they are talking about. Otherwise, it's fruitless.

There you sit, wringing your hands and whimpering in the hope that Rome will do something about it, all while Rome, and her attitude toward power and authority is the problem.

Not quite. Rome knows the problem - they want the bishops to fix it themselves (or they're waiting for the liberals to die off). We're waiting for Rome to realize that they won't do it.

How about the exercise of rigid Papal discipline over the responsible clerics in the Vatican bank scandal?

Uh, well, it did result in the assasination of the previous pope.... It was fixed. It just took a little longer.

How many Catholic Germans were excommunicated over their activities during the second world war?

You mean the ones in the German Army? Because many Catholics were more in the Oscar Schindler catagory, according to people I know who lived through it.

For whatever reason, Rome has chosen, in order to preserve institutional power, to practice a form of moral inversion - where the powerful and the connected are rewarded for their "service" by a lack of censure for heinous activities.

It does tick off the faithful, but there are signs that it might be changing.

How many mobsters have been excommunicated,

I don't know about excommunicated - they don't do that kind of crime - but they are refused a Catholic burial. There is a whole cemetary in New York just for them. St. John somebody.

bishops happily show up at the events of a crime family with greasy smiles and outstretched palms?

You've been watching too much Godfather.

[Siobhan]

I realize you don't know to whom you are writing. I have 2 adopted children who were the products of incest. Their right to life was always primary as is the case with every child who is conceived, and their right to life can never be ignored or rejected. Their right to life could never be overuled for any reason -- and especially not because of your melodramatic prognositcations about what the mother's life would be. Where life is honored, there is hope.

You would make the victim of incest a murderess. Utterly vile and absolutely wrong.

[Desdemona]

I'm also eagerly awaiting your first album

Will you settle for my recital in the spring? I always have them recorded.

[Campion]

Your Cardinal Humbert received the Bull of Excommunication in 1054, excommunicating the Pope. Dontcha read history?

I'm not the Pope, and excommunicating the Pope doesn't "boot" the Catholic Church "out" of anything. Cardinal Humbert had no authority to excommunicate the Patriarch or anyone else, because the Pope who sent him had died, so the whole thing was a misunderstanding. And the edicts of excommunication on both sides were formally rescinded in 1968.

Unlike you, I both read history and understand it.

[Siobhan]

It would be a great joy to hear you sing any way possible.

[Lilly]

When are these evil catholics going to be sentenced to life and chemically castrated?