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Priest, bishop clash in sex, theft scandals
THE WASHINGTON TIMES ^ | 11/12/2002 | George Archibald

Posted on 11/12/2002 6:42:27 AM PST by robowombat

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To: Seruzawa
I agree. All these Bishops' Conferences, endless pronouncements, constant tinkering with procedures regarding the pedophiles....all lead nowhere, especially not to reform.

The problems of the Church run deep. They've been ongoing with AmChurch for at least 60 years. Nothing will be solved by the Bishops getting together to spout more hot air.
81 posted on 11/12/2002 12:22:44 PM PST by Palladin
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To: Zviadist

Apparently, Bishop Loverde is NOT very responsive to his flock.  One organization based in Arlington recently wrote how he intends to expunge genuflecting at Holy Communion: 

"The priests in the Diocese of Arlington have been instructed by Bishop Loverde to use the four weeks of Advent to catechize the laity so that kneeling for Communion will finally be stamped out. (Goodness, there must be all of a dozen who continue to practice this ancient piety.) In September () wrote to the bishop requesting clarification after the rector of the Cathedral, Fr. Dominic Irace, denied Communion to state delegate Dick Black.  The bishops document says (at Vatican instruction) that, "Under no circumstances may a person be denied Holy Communion merely because he or she has refused to stand to receive Holy Communion."   We continue to wait for an answer."

82 posted on 11/12/2002 12:28:32 PM PST by passive1
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Actually, it is the business of every American now, especially since there has been so much subornation of the civil and criminal justice system by your clerics. IMO, the RCC is an organization subject to RICO prosecution for its conspiracies and crimes.

You are quite right, Palpatine. Raping children and stealing donations are felonies in every state, so it is an American problem of law, not just a Church matter. Bishops and priests are not above the law in this country.

83 posted on 11/12/2002 12:33:03 PM PST by Palladin
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To: Desdemona
I think their grip is nowhere near as tight as it used to be

I agree!! I have been following a little tiff going on in Dallas between the bishop (Jadot appointment)and his auxilliary Bishop (John Paul II appointment).For quite sometime I was disgusted with both since the media reported what appeared to be joint protection of a priest who was on-line with St.Sebastion's Angels.This priest generated a letter to his fellow members about his Latin roommate at a Youth retreat,alluding to his hot Latin blood.The priest is gone now but I believe it was the anger of the parishioners that finally caused action.

But over the last several days it seems that the auzilliary is speaking out about the bishop's failure to act on a complaint that seems to involve a homosexual incident involving the priest and another "legal" male.It would seem that JOhn Paul's appointment is acting like a shepard of the Catholic Church. I hope I am right.Anybody keeping up with Graumann and Gallante?

84 posted on 11/12/2002 12:37:51 PM PST by saradippity
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To: ArrogantBustard
I will be happy to write an e-mail to Dignity/Northern Virginia asking the ecclesiastical status of the priest(s) who celebrate Mass for them, and to post their reply, if any.
85 posted on 11/12/2002 12:39:59 PM PST by eastsider
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To: ninenot
Bishop Loverde was previously bishop of the diocese of Ogdensburg, New York.  The seminary there, Wadhams Hall Seminary, closed in June, 2002.  The problems in that seminary were published at great length in The Wanderer last year, which received extensive documentation from a source that  had followed the horrid catechesis that flowed through the seminary for decades.  Clearly, this polluted catechesis was permitted during Bishop Loverde's tenure at Ogdensburg.  As bishop, he eliminated the altar boy restriction, permitting altar girls. Bishop Keating of Arlington defended the restriction to altar boys as important to priestly vocations since 85% of priests at one time served as such.   It is likely that he will proceed on that path too in Arlington, probably after he demolishes any dissent on genuflecting during Holy Communion.

The fact that he has taken extreme actions against the priest-whistle blower is consistent with the conduct of many U.S. bishops, who tolerate doctrinal dissent on virtually any level, but drop the sledgehammer on any orthodox priest who can't stomach the perversion of the Gospel that is tolerated by the bishop.  There are many men who have had their priestly faculties removed who would serve the Church mightily, but who are guilty of orthodoxy or disgust with the conduct in the diocese.

86 posted on 11/12/2002 12:42:25 PM PST by passive1
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To: saradippity
I have been following a little tiff going on in Dallas between the bishop (Jadot appointment)and his auxilliary Bishop (John Paul II appointment).

I haven't been following this situation, but I will agree that most of the JP II appointments in the last ten years or so have been head and shoulders above what they replaced.
87 posted on 11/12/2002 12:43:23 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: eastsider
Any bishop -- including my own -- who allows his priests or priests within his jurisdiction to give sacramental succor to Dignity, whether in a Catholic Church or otherwise, is in violation of the CDF's directive to withdraw "all support" from this dissident group.

What to make of this, then:

Fremont, California, October 26, 2002 (SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, Excerpted) - Eddie "Gwen" Araujo was the victim of hate, but his death must bring tolerance, mourners said Friday at memorial services from the East Bay to San Francisco for a boy police say was killed for living as a girl.

"Angels don't have a gender, and he's my angel now," Araujo's mother, Sylvia Guerrero, told 750 people who packed ST. EDWARD'S CATHOLIC CHURCH in Newark, Araujo's hometown and where he was killed three weeks ago. "He's safe somewhere where no one can hurt him."

At a wake earlier in Fremont, teary-eyed mourners viewed an open casket, with Araujo as the girl he knew himself to be -- long black hair, butterfly necklace, black blouse, fingerless black lace gloves and metallic nails.

Speakers at the vigil said schools must create a tolerant environment for transgender youth, and urged reporters to refer to Araujo as "she." Three women wore white shirts with Araujo's picture. On the back was emblazoned, "We really love you beneath it all." Other friends held signs reading, "God loves Gwen" and "Love me for who I am, not what I am."

A small group of transgendered activists was welcomed at the funeral, their presence greeted with wild applause a few minutes before the service ended. It was rare, they said, for the transgender community to get this kind of support, and they asked the group not to forget Gwen or other biological men who identified as women.

The Mass was laced with sadness and humor.

88 posted on 11/12/2002 12:48:23 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Itzlzha
You SELF-RIGHTEOUS PRIG!

Yawn. How DARE you tell ANYONE they have no right to say ANYTHING!

That's not what I said. Since you are too clueless to read what I said, there's really not much point in talking to you about it, is there?

You who will wear blinders to the GATES of HELL in defense of these blasphemous PEDOPHILES and PERVERTS in the collar!

I'm not defending them, Shrieker.

Perhaps it is WE who should be telling you and YOUR ilk that YOU have nothing to add, nor any right to add it; since you allow these Perverts to permeate YOUR beloved Church

I didn't "allow" anything, Baby. I had nothing to do with it. I wasn't consulted, I didn't pick'em, I was NOT (do you understand the word "NOT"?) involved. I'm not a bishop. I'm not a priest. If I knew one who was doing this sort of stuff, I'd hang 'em high.

Got that, Baby? Good. Now, it's time for your bottle and your nap. I can tell because of your shrill screeching.

Thank JimRob that personal insults and profanity are taboo here, else you would be squirming right about now ....

LOL. You've graduated from making me angry. Now I just think you're funny. Grow up.

89 posted on 11/12/2002 12:48:57 PM PST by Campion
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To: Itzlzha
And you have the GAUL to reply...

Incidentally, "GAUL" is an archaic name for France. The word you want is "gall".

90 posted on 11/12/2002 12:50:11 PM PST by Campion
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
IMO, the RCC is an organization subject to RICO prosecution for its conspiracies and crimes.

Wrong, because "the RCC" is not, legally, an organization at all. Each diocese is separate.

I have no -- none -- zero -- zilch problem with the idea that clerics have the same responsibility to uphold the civil law as anyone else. If you're trying to pretend that I, or (practically speaking), any other Catholic on this forum does, you're engaging in slander.

91 posted on 11/12/2002 12:54:43 PM PST by Campion
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
the most ardent defenders and apologists for the corruption are those who defer the most to that hierchial authority - that is to say, conservative or traditional Catholics.

In other words, the people who condemn homosexual perversion and think it doesn't belong anywhere, but most especially in the holy priesthood, are most responsible for putting it there?

Who are you, George Orwell?

92 posted on 11/12/2002 1:06:05 PM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
Hey, calm down.

Just tell them that you'll ask the Blessed Mother to pray for them.
93 posted on 11/12/2002 1:08:14 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona
Some of these people need exorcism, not assurances of my prayers to the Blessed Mother.
94 posted on 11/12/2002 1:11:44 PM PST by Campion
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To: Zviadist
No, I know that.
95 posted on 11/12/2002 1:13:39 PM PST by ventana
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To: Campion
Yes, I realize that, but it works like a charm.

Besides, answering anger and spin with more anger really doesn't get us anywhere. This year has been amazingly painful. They enjoy rubbing solt in our wounds....

On second thought, exorcism might be better.
96 posted on 11/12/2002 1:16:03 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Campion
Make that salt...
97 posted on 11/12/2002 1:16:55 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona
Oh, I'm not angry. I simply treated Itzl-whatsit's hissy fit the same way I treat my 8-year-old when he acts that way.
98 posted on 11/12/2002 1:21:41 PM PST by Campion
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To: Desdemona; nina0113; Steve0113
I'll freep the bishop, Desdemona. The more I am learning as the day wears on, it is clear to me that Fr. Haley is definitely the sort of priest I would want to hear my confession. He has been dealt with in a way that appears to violate canon law. I'm no expert on that at all, but I'll let you know if I learn more on that score. As someone earlier mentioned, some are convinced that Bishop Loverde would be found guilty of obstruction of justice and witness tampering for his dealings with Fr. Haley.
99 posted on 11/12/2002 1:38:34 PM PST by Siobhan
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To: Campion; Salvation
I am inclined to say heaven. But if its Purgatory then it is the Lounge for those soon departing for heaven. He was a holy bishop, and as we can see, that is a right difficult thing to be.
100 posted on 11/12/2002 1:42:40 PM PST by Siobhan
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